Control/Dimming Help me pick a console!

My school uses a Colortran/NSI Innovator 24/48. It works great for us, but that is because our system is a blast from the 50's past... We would like to have more channels, but if your system includes intelligent/moving lights or LED's I wouldn't recommend any of the Innovator series.
 
Ok so i know this has maybe been covered but i am asking again

I am in charge of the lighting for all my schools dances
currently we have 4 ADJ spot 250(not the best but they are making the people that need to be happy Happy)
we want to expand mostly with somewhat intelligent lighting(at least DMX)


Currently we are just hooking the lights up in slave/master mode and useing the masters mic

we are going to be mostly use these lights for dances but sometimes for a theater type setting as well as architectural work

I can only spend maximum like 400.00(i would have to killllll to get that tho)

I would prefer a dmx to usb interface with software (but i really want faders)

any ideas?
 
I like this little guy it says 12 16 channel fixtures if my lights just have 6 channels then would i hav to over channels still open or is it limited to 12 fixtures?
 
Looking to upgrade our console. We currently have an ETC Express 72/144 which is a great board but we are starting to out-grow it. We have recently added moving lights, which the express does not handle well, and other DMX devices like color scrollers and strobes. We love our ETC board and get great support from local companies so we have decided to stay in the ETC family (plus we don't have to worry about conflicts with our current system). We started looking at the ETC Ion but the ETC Element also caught our eye as a cheaper alternative.

We are wondering if anyone can explain the differences in the two boards so we can decide if the extra cost on the Ion is worth it. I've read ETC's website but they don't have specific enough information.

Here's what we have:
-1600 seats
-188 dimmers
-160+ conventional lights (almost all have been used for a single show)
-10 Chavet Qspot 250 Moving lights (13 channels each- yes, I know...they suck. Not my choice)
-12 Apollo 7.5 color scrollers (4 channels each), will be adding to 24 soonish.
-2 Atomic 3000 strobes (4 channels each).
-DMX hazers and a handful of other DMX f/x devices.

- Show needs: We do 1 musical and 2 straight shows a year (all recorded cues). We do 2 "rock" concerts a year (cues and submaster effects), and 2 combos (shows that need full stage conventionals plus all the flashies....these are the biggens with cues in both A/B and C/D faders, plus subs and sub effects). We also do choir/band concerts and assemblies that we run off of submasters only.

- Our current console can handle 240 channels and our most recent big show more than filled this (I had to patch multiple dimmers to a couple channels to fit everything)

- Submasters are a must so we cannot buy just the Ion without sliders. We run the majority of our events live.

- Budget is a concern but both consoles are eventually affordable, its just a matter of how long it takes to save up.

- We are still upgrading/adding equipment so we need something that allows for some growth.

- Moving light functionality is a big plus. Our current system blows for this and is one of the main reasons we are upgrading. We run all of our moving light shows live (not recorded cues...those are used to run specific patterns but still operated live) ease of live use is a big concern.

I hope this is all the info people need to help. Please, feel free to ask any questions and thank you for any ideas.



Jason Stoll
Assistant Technical Director
Neenah High School
Neenah, WI
 
Looking to upgrade our console. We currently have an ETC Express 72/144 which is a great board but we are starting to out-grow it. We have recently added moving lights, which the express does not handle well, and other DMX devices like color scrollers and strobes. We love our ETC board and get great support from local companies so we have decided to stay in the ETC family (plus we don't have to worry about conflicts with our current system). We started looking at the ETC Ion but the ETC Element also caught our eye as a cheaper alternative.



Jason Stoll
Assistant Technical Director
Neenah High School
Neenah, WI

If you are happy with your express console for conventional lighting, you might want to consider a separate control system for your movers and scrollers which can be controlled by your express console. This can be a cost effective solution in your situation. ( under $1000 plus a computer you probably have lying around anyway)

One system ( which I helped develop ) is mLight. Welcome to OSF Solutions inGenius mLight This is a software only application ( IE uses your computer and mouse instead of sliders and encoders) which was developed by the Oregon Shakespeare Festival to control their moving lights. It's easy to learn but quite powerful. Another possibility is Light Jockey by Martin.
 
- Looking to upgrade our console.

- We are still upgrading/adding equipment so we need something that allows for some growth.

- Moving light functionality is a big plus.

Saw this today. Don't get an Element, based on those 3 criteria. The Ion would be a much better choice as it has built in ML and non-conventional control. We recently upgraded from an Express 48 with Emphasis to an Ion 1024, with 3 fader wings (currently have only used 2), as well as dual touch screen LCD's and a Radio Remote Focus Unit.

EVERYTHING was worth it !. You could probably do a similar package, minus one 2x20 fader wing and minus one touch screen for around $12,000 and would discover as I have that the control and functionality for scrollers and ML's makes it all worth it, the control is that much better. Having at least one touch screen makes a world of difference for ML and scroller control as you have the Direct Select section for quick access to Palettes and Presets, which saves a ton of time. You don't get the same level of functionality with an Element, as it has no encoders and must be driven by a mouse, which gets tiring (as it was on my Emphasis).

And while I see the point JChenault makes and it is certainly cost effective, I don't know if there's a console out there for theatrical events that delivers as much bang for the buck as an Ion. Especially as you can start small'ish and add stuff as you get funding - an RFR, another touch screen, add'l fader wings, etc...

FWIW, I use our Ion on a lot of R&R stuff, and am of the opinion that Ion is not the best for busking, but you can do it with creative control and the touch screen certainly makes life easier. Possibly a Congo, or Jr. is a bit better, but 'ya gotta learn RPN. Easier for me to make the Ion dance then learn RPN and have to teach it to others and for the musicals and plays, the Eos syntax, like the Obsession and Light Palette command line syntax before it, is very easy to use and to teach.
 
Ok so i know this has maybe been covered but i am asking again

I am in charge of the lighting for all my schools dances
currently we have 4 ADJ spot 250(not the best but they are making the people that need to be happy Happy)
we want to expand mostly with somewhat intelligent lighting(at least DMX)


Currently we are just hooking the lights up in slave/master mode and useing the masters mic

we are going to be mostly use these lights for dances but sometimes for a theater type setting as well as architectural work

I can only spend maximum like 400.00(i would have to killllll to get that tho)

I would prefer a dmx to usb interface with software (but i really want faders)

any ideas?

Definitely Chamsys MagicQ. Its free and an Enttec dongle ranges from $50 to $150. The only major downside for you is the lack physical faders for conventional.

Invest the remaining money into a pair of touchscreens.
 
Looking to upgrade our console. ...We are wondering if anyone can explain the differences in the two boards so we can decide if the extra cost on the Ion is worth it. I've read ETC's website but they don't have specific enough information.

Jason Stoll
Assistant Technical Director
Neenah High School
Neenah, WI

I'd agree with what's been posted, Jason - the Ion is what you want if you're looking for ML control. As said before, it's not quite as good for busking (nothing like more handles to help make things easier), but the touchscreen is a MUST for movers (I use a GrandMA light for my movers, which is a little on the pricier side, but moving to it from a HOG I found the wonder of touchscreen. And the ability to add external touchscreens... Touchscreens allow for all sorts of little tricks, once you're used to them. And encoders are a must for moving lights. You can always get by with a few playback faders, but a touchscreen adds so much.

Adam.
 
Console suggestions

Hey all,
We're doing an install in a new theatre/bar/club. Seats about 75 people. The stage is roughly 20' x 20'. It will have 20 LED Par 64 (4 channel) and 16 conventional fixtures.
I need to find a console new or used for $1200 or less. I don't know too much about theatre. But I know they will want the ability to use cuestacks. I would like to set them up with each LED par 64 to have its own address and able to be controlled separately.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?


thanks a lot!
 
Re: Console suggestions

Thats good to know, thanks! I was looking into the smartfade consoles, but I didn't know they would be that cheap used.

If the rig was to grow, the LED pars could be re-addressed into groups.


any opinions on the Elation show designer?
 
Re: Console suggestions

This thread has a bunch of tips on choosing a console.

As for your specific situation, the SmartFade ML might actually be a good choice for you with a bunch of LED pars, but I'm not sure if it or any other board in the SmartFade series runs cue stacks (can someone confirm yes or no?)

There's always the option of PC control also; MagicQ with a control wing. This would be in your budget and could easily be your best option.
 
Re: Console suggestions

... I'm not sure if it or any other board in the SmartFade series runs cue stacks (can someone confirm yes or no?)

Yes, they do. They can even run multiple ones at the same time.
 
Re: Console suggestions

I checked that thread and didn't find much useful info.

I would love the Smartfade ML, but its a bit out of range. I'll be searching for a used Smartfade 2496.

I am very against putting a pc system in an install. I've been a guest in too many venues using Light Jockey or other pc programs. The computer is always very slow (probably because it is used for other things) and it is never laid out properly, as well as they always lack a control surface\ and someone who knows how to use it. using a mouse to control lights is unacceptable for me. Even the cheapest pc program will need a touch screen, dmx in or midi surface to be usable
 
Re: Console suggestions

I guess I should mention something I have said many time before regarding the SmartFade consoles. I highly recommend having a computer available to run the SmartSoft software for the purpose of programming. It is not necessary, but makes programming, which can be a PITA without it, much easier. All you would need is a computer with the free software on it and a USB A to B cable to connect to the console. Once you have things programmed, you can take the computer out of the picture with no issues.

Also, SmartSoft can also be used as an OLE, allowing you to program off-site. Just save the show to an SD card and load into into the console. Hope this additional info helps.
 
Re: Console suggestions

smartfade can run a stack, however it's really horrible to program. If you can find a real board(see if someone will sell you an express real cheap, or an old strand board) I would highly recommend it. Failing that, yes, a smartfade will probably do what you want. Smartsoft on a computer connected to the console makes it slightly more bearable, but it's still not a substitute for a real console.
 

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