"Crossroads LED" for Source Four (HPL replacement)?

[jgels]

Hi all,
So I found this
LEDs Magazine - Crossroads LED develops replacement for ETC Source Four PAR lamp

It claims to be a replacement for the source four hpl bulb and I was wondering what people's thoughts were on this. This is the only evidence I see of this product existing.

Thoughts?

 

[Esoteric]

re: "Crossroads LED" for Source Four (HPL replacement)?

Yeti.

You notice they never said anything about its dimming curve.

 

[JD]

re: "Crossroads LED" for Source Four (HPL replacement)?

What is with these press releases that leave more questions then you started with? Nothing on their site, no idea if it is DMX or just an AC plug unit that kind-of dims. No info about color temperature, what type of mix of LEDs they are using. As far as I can tell, it may just be an architectural unit in line with the HID S4 PAR. But then again, no info, no idea!

 

[derekleffew]

From CROSSROADS LED - Complete LED Lighting Solution Specialists :

It generates advanced lighting effects and features that are superior over the cumbersome and antiquated DMX stage lighting controls used by the competition.

Well, finally! It's about time. I can't wait to stop using those "cumbersome and antiquated" EOSes and gMA2s.

 

[MNicolai]

My question is, who's trying to fire up 2MW of S4 PAR's?

Unusual facts for the day:

+ 2MW would mean there are 3500 fixtures in question.
+ 3500 fixtures, put in a square array on 12" centers, would create an array 59' tall by 59' wide.
+ At an incentive of $175/kW-saved, and 1,700kW fewer in the overall energy consumption, the value if the upgrade would be $300k.
+ If you powered on 2MW of fixtures via feeder cable with mains rated at 400A and loaded them to 100%, you would need 41 legs of 120v to turn the system on, which means 14 disconnect panels.

I can't be the only one who thinks this press release sounds fishy.

 

[shiben]

My question is, who's trying to fire up 2MW of S4 PAR's?

Unusual facts for the day:

+ 2MW would mean there are 3500 fixtures in question.
+ 3500 fixtures, put in a square array on 12" centers, would create an array 59' tall by 59' wide.
+ At an incentive of $175/kW-saved, and 1,700kW fewer in the overall energy consumption, the value if the upgrade would be $300k.
+ If you powered on 2MW of fixtures via feeder cable with mains rated at 400A and loaded them to 100%, you would need 41 legs of 120v to turn the system on, which means 14 disconnect panels.

I can't be the only one who thinks this press release sounds fishy.

You dont have 14 disconnect panels full of S4 PARs? I thought that was standard equipment in most theaters...

 

[MNicolai]

You dont have 14 disconnect panels full of S4 PARs? I thought that was standard equipment in most theaters...

We would if not for the 9 company switches we have tied up for our Kliegel inventory.

 

[derekleffew]

My question is, who's trying to fire up 2MW of S4 PAR's?

I suspect that the Detroit Auto Show each year comes close. Or used to, until other than incandescent sources became prominent. See Green Detroit Auto Show Just For Show? - Life Goggles : Life Goggles and Largest Right Arm Install To Date … | From The Horse's Mouth .

See also PRG AutoPAR.

 

[shiben]

I suspect that the Detroit Auto Show each year comes close. Or used to, until other than incandescent sources became prominent. See Green Detroit Auto Show Just For Show? - Life Goggles : Life Goggles and Largest Right Arm Install To Date … | From The Horse's Mouth .

Or figure most large conventions take up a load of power. Often times I will deal with one booth that might be drawing 400A, so I would imagine the entire floor of any really large conference would take up 3200 PARs...

 

[Eriksrocks]

How has no one mentioned the CRI? Unless their are using them all no-color, I can't imagine dropping gel in this thing would look too good...

 

[Esoteric]

My electrician did the electrical renovation at the Dallas Convention Center. There is tons of power available. Dont know how much is in use at any one time.

 

[MNicolai]

How has no one mentioned the CRI? Unless their are using them all no-color, I can't imagine dropping gel in this thing would look too good...

Following towards the convention center idea -- I don't know that CRI matters (as much). Bet they're almost exclusively being used as no-color. Any gels used are probably for white-balance correction or diffusion. This isn't LDI where the light is the product and the trade show floors are generally dark. If you look at the auto-show stuff, the name of the game is [as-white] and [as-bright] as possible. Lots of soft-lighting there too.

 

[tdeater]

I just got an email from Crossroads LED about these bulbs. Here is what they say right now:

Thank you for your interest in our company and its products. Our web designer is updating the company’s webpage with our latest products and spec sheets, they should be available soon.

The units are dimmable utilizing either trailing edge (what most dimming controls now use) or triac dimmers. The starting price for the retrofit luminaire is $460.00 with volume discounts available.

I have attached two photographs of a source four fixture retrofitted with our LED luminaire for your review.

If you have any additional questions please do not hesitate to call or email me.

Sincerely,


Buddy Stefanoff
Crossroads LED, LLC
CROSSROADS LED - Complete LED Lighting Solution Specialists

He also attached the following 2 pictures:

 

[JD]

This is the type of line that bothers me:

"The units are dimmable utilizing either trailing edge (what most dimming controls now use) or triac dimmers."

One is a concept and one is a device. It would be like saying, "This car works with a high performance engine or pistons."

Maybe it was a slip of the tongue (or keyboard) but this and other comments give me concern as to how reliable the information about this unit will be.

 

[derekleffew]

"The units are dimmable utilizing either trailing edge (what most dimming controls now use) ... "

And, in fact, the vast majority of theatrical dimmers (Sensor, CD80, and so on) are Dimmer, Forward Phase-Control (leading edge dimmers), NOT trailing edge (Dimmer, Reverse Phase-Control).

As best I can tell, TRIAC s can be operated either way, but again, the majority are forward phase-control.

 

[Kelite]

For those interested in reading more about the company-

Startup shines on race day | Tulsa World

 

[JD]

For those interested in reading more about the company-

Startup shines on race day | Tulsa World

Very young company, and here in the states. Guess I'll cut them a break as they are still in the learning curve. They just stepped into the theater world and I suspect they are in for the steep part of that curve. Expectations in the amusement industry are quite different then expectations in the theater.

As best I can tell, TRIAC s can be operated either way, but again, the majority are forward phase-control.

Once a triac is switched on, it will not turn off until the forward current drops below a certain level. An IGBT can switch off. As far as I know, reverse phase dimmers use IGBTs.

 

[DavidNorth]

Triacs and SCRs are forward-phase devices. IGBTs and MOSFETs can be fired as forward-phase, reverse-phase or sine wave, depending on support electronics and software.

Forward-phase is predominant in theatre and architectural supporting tungsten, resistive, magnetic low voltage, neon and cold cathode. Reverse-phase is very common for electronic low voltage transformers, and some line-level LED drivers.

Anyone else notice that the LED element has no power cord?

David

 

[jgels]

I just got an email from Crossroads LED about these bulbs. Here is what they say right now:



He also attached the following 2 pictures:

I notice that they don't seem to know to be specific between a source four and a source four par either.

 

[GForce]

Has anyone seen these LEDs in the Wild? Are they still $460? Google produced 0 shopping results.