Stage collapse in Toronto

[derekleffew]

...Who remembers when people were constantly getting trampled or killed by being stepped on at concerts? It was everywhere, now you never hear about it.

<Raises hand.> I remember because I was almost there. Some dorm-mates were going, but I decided I couldn't afford the $11 or $14 or whatever the tickets were. The Who Concert Tragedy - Twenty Years Later Eventually, "festival seating" was outlawed, and concerts today are safer as a result.

 

[ruinexplorer]

I would hope that local governments, venues, artists, and producers will start requiring temporary entertainment structures to be assembled under the direct supervision of a licensed structural engineer who specializes in it.

This would kill this part of the industry. There aren't enough engineers to be available for all the structures being built. Either that, or a change would happen where the engineer wouldn't truly be qualified by the standards they are now.

 

[len]

The deceased is Radiohead's drum tech. Radiohead drum tech killed in stage collapse - CNN.com

 

[MNicolai]

These things are such one-off's and are just blips compared to the kinds of jobs most structural engineers are doing day-to-day. To get a structural engineer interested, you'd have to throw a lot of money at them. If it got to that extreme, it'd probably be cheaper to tour with an engineer than to hire a new one in every city. Even then, that only reduces the risk of failures after the structure is erected and still leaves some amount of risk in the process of erecting the structure.

As for news, this is a small industry. While I think there is more awareness in the media than there has been, plenty of accidents that are only covered by local news show up on these forums. It's a small enough industry that there's a chance with every incident that someone here at CB personally knows the people involved with the accident, even those reported only by local news.

The line that we use a lot here in the office is, "Same faces, different companies," because despite people moving between different companies over the years, the various players in our industry remain the same.

Regardless of how often these accidents happen versus how often they make national headlines, it doesn't change the fact that we're such a small industry that one person's death or injury can make regional or even national waves.

Just because the national media does or doesn't bite on a story doesn't mean it isn't worth discussing here on CB or putting under the scrutiny of our peers. That said, it's worth noting that there probably has not been a recent influx of these accidents, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't think they were showing up on CB a lot more than they used to...

 

[church]

These things are such one-off's and are just blips compared to the kinds of jobs most structural engineers are doing day-to-day. To get a structural engineer interested, you'd have to throw a lot of money at them. If it got to that extreme, it'd probably be cheaper to tour with an engineer than to hire a new one in every city. Even then, that only reduces the risk of failures after the structure is erected and still leaves some amount of risk in the process of erecting the structure.

As for news, this is a small industry. While I think there is more awareness in the media than there has been, plenty of accidents that are only covered by local news show up on these forums. It's a small enough industry that there's a chance with every incident that someone here at CB personally knows the people involved with the accident, even those reported only by local news.

The line that we use a lot here in the office is, "Same faces, different companies," because despite people moving between different companies over the years, the various players in our industry remain the same.

Regardless of how often these accidents happen versus how often they make national headlines, it doesn't change the fact that we're such a small industry that one person's death or injury can make regional or even national waves.

Just because the national media does or doesn't bite on a story doesn't mean it isn't worth discussing here on CB or putting under the scrutiny of our peers. That said, it's worth noting that there probably has not been a recent influx of these accidents, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't think they were showing up on CB a lot more than they used to...

with many tours being international events it is very difficult for one engineer to cover every venue. To illustrate each Canadian Province licences their own engineers and you cannot practice in another province, an Ontario engineer cannot do structural work in the U.K. and vice versa.

I can also get a structural engineer to do work that requires only 1 hour of their time, not a problem at all, I just have to be prepared to pay for their time.

 

[Footer]

The real changes will take place when insurance for these type of shows gets so outrageous that you can no longer afford to do the gig. Either that, or the insurance companies will put so many requirements on these shows that they won't be feasible OR we will start doing things differently. Finally, you will start seeing bands do what ZZ Top just did... and that will probably have the largest affect.

 

[gafftaper]

I think, the real question to look at is one that has been discussed here in the past. Are promoters asking too much from portable staging systems? Do concerts need to scale down the tech of their outdoor shows and leave the big bad toys in the truck for use in theaters and stadiums with real pick points to hang from?

 

[BillESC]

I think Gaff nailed it. Why does production have to be of epic scale for one offs?

 

[JohnD]

Here is an updated article from CBC:
Radiohead company among 4 named in stage-collapse probe - Arts & Entertainment - CBC News
According to "unnamed sources", Upstaging who provided the lighting, there were concerns about the weight involved but the engineer said it was OK.
The article also points out that criminal charges have been ruled out and the full investigation could take a year.

 

[gafftaper]

From the end of the article linked above...

"The thing that's unique about this type of facility is the speed that it goes up and the speed that it comes down. And it might very well be that the pace of the industry is just too fast to allow normal protocols to do their job," Toronto-based civil engineer David Bowick said.

Bowick added that temporary stages such as Radiohead's are inherently less robust. "Because of a lack of redundancy, a very small human error could precipitate a chain reaction."

Janet Sellery, a Stratford, Ont., safety consultant specializing in the arts, agreed that the pressure to produce flashy performances on a short turnaround could bear part of the blame. She also said inconsistent labour and safety standards are endangering those toiling behind the scenes at increasingly ambitious shows.

Yep.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

From the end of the article linked above...


Yep.

Yep indeed.

 

[mstaylor]

Evidently there were engineering plans approved beforehand. So that begs the question, was their numbers off, the shows numbers off or just not put together correctly.

 

[ruinexplorer]

PLASA just issued a statement about the collapse.

 

[DuckJordan]

Evidently there were engineering plans approved beforehand. So that begs the question, was their numbers off, the shows numbers off or just not put together correctly.

or things were not loaded as intended or as to the plans. More than once I've seen carps come in and ask for a different lineset because "It looks a bit too close" when we went off their exact specs.

 

[JohnD]

Radiohead to delay part of tour:
Radiohead postpone portion of European tour - MSN Music News

 

[cmckeeman]

Charges have been filed for the collapse

 

[JD]

Stage Collapse That Killed Radiohead Drum Tech Results in 13 Charges of Negligence --- By: Jordan Sargent July 06, 2015 8:16 PM

Live Nation has been charged with crimes stemming from a 2012 incident in which a stage collapsed before a Radiohead concert in Toronto, killing drum technician Scott Johnson. According to the Toronto Star, the charges were announced by Ontario’s Ministry of Labour nearly one year to the day of the tragedy, which injured three others aside from Johnson. Under the Occupational Health and Safety Act, the Ministry of Labour alleges that two Canadian subsidiaries of Live Nation did not ensure that the stage was constructed and monitored in a fashion that was safe for workers. Live Nation Canada and Live Nation Ontario Concerts were each tagged with four charges — the ministry also charged Optex Staging & Services Inc. with four counts and engineer Domenic Cugliari with one, bringing the total to 13.

Live Nation released a statement saying that it “wholeheartedly” disagrees with the charges, and that it did everything in its power to make sure the area was safe. Ministry spokesman Matt Blajer told the Star that each charge carries a maximum fine of $500,000 for a corporation or $250,000 or up to a year in prison for an individual. If Live Nation is convicted on all charges, it could face up to $4 million in penalties. Earlier this year, the concert giant reported revenue of $5.8 billion.

The incident occurred June 16, 2012 at Toronto’s Downsview Park. Johnson — a well-known drum tech who had also worked with bands Portishead and Elbow — was reportedly crushed under debris when the stage crumpled. Radiohead canceled the sold-out show, rescheduled seven dates, and issued a statement remembering Johnson as a “lovely man, always positive, supportive and funny.” A month later the band returned to the stage in Nice, France, where they honored Johnson with onstage projections.
(Article has tons of spam so direct click at own risk. Everything important above)
http://www.spin.com/2013/06/live-nation-charged-radiohead-stage-collapse/

 

[gafftaper]

If Live Nation is convicted on all charges, it could face up to $4 million in penalties. Earlier this year, the concert giant reported revenue of $5.8 billion.

As was said in the discussion above, it's all about money. $4 million in penalties is just the cost of doing business to companies like this. It's not as bad as the death at MGM where the OSHA fine was only a few thousand dollars, but it's still just pocket change to Live Nation.

 

[scott407]

This is why mobile stages have become so popular. Their wind ratings, roof weight limits, and stage limits are fixed and known. They could have used one of the SAM's from Stageline.

 

[JohnD]

Bringing this back up after reading THIS.
Short version, in 2013 13 charges were filed against Live Nation, Optex Staging and Domenic Cugliari, the engineer who signed off on the design.
In 2017 a judge stayed all the charges. It seems that by taking so long to go to trial the rights of the accused had been violated.