Good question. I have no idea. Many possible outcomes. What happens if it's contractor designed, no access, never inspected, and in 25 years no accidents? How many nights can someone drive home drunk and avoid consequences? It's a risk I am no longer interested in taking.Bill, do you think the client will end up with a better/safer theatre if you walk away? I'd bet not.
Frankly, I'm uncomfortable with the the idea of a fly system in any space that does not have a full-time, professional TD. An early mentor once said that a theatre is the only place in the US where you can operate a crane over people's heads. Not positive that's true, but it lends perspective. Would we let a drama teacher and some students maintain and operate a construction crane, or ski lift or something? To me, if you can't meet x,y and z standards, you just can't have the thing. Lots of great theatre happens without fly systems.
Of course, now you're spending way more time on a ladder / lift / scaffold. Is that safer? As a HS student I once left myself hanging from a batten when my (poorly maintained) ladder went out from under me. Risk assessment is hard.
Sorry for the late response, but yes, feel free to share it with your potential client.Nice paper Erich. So true. I hope you don't mind if I send a copy to this client. Of course if he doesn't want to hire me for this issue he may decide not to ask you.
PS: you should allow DVS to post it here in Resources.
@venuetech @BillConnerFASTC @MPowers @teqniqal @twinters630 Writing in support with two queries:Erich, I just caught up on some reading, VERY nice paper re: missing steel. Bill, you know my feelings on this. Sometimes it feels I'm just beating my head against a wall, or pushing a boulder up a hill .....again....! For what its worth, I've been in a couple of Bill's buildings and I really like the multiple catwalk solution if a full walking grid is out of the question. This is a battle I've been, .... we've all been, fighting for years. I was involved in a building in Iowa that, against my adamant advice, included neither a loading rail or a grid or catwalks. I tried to have my name removed from the project but for legal and a number of other reasons, I was unable. TD's will curse my name for decades to come, I'm sure. After completion they wound up having to add an overhaul winch to load arbors and students were not allowed to use it. There were a couple of "fixes" that had to be done at grid height after construction was 99% complete. Getting a 55' lift in, overlaying the floor with several layers of 3/4" ply to help support the lift, about 3-4 hours worth of labor every time the lift had to move up or down stage , etc etc. Bill, let them look at the stage at the newest High school stage in Ft Dodge, Iowa if they want to see the folly of not having access.
@kicknargel I'm loving it and definitely NOT laughing. It's easy to think back to a time when scissor lifts were not only unheard of but not within anyone's wildest imagination or future thoughts, trestle ladders loose-pinned onto custom built dollies accompanied by dedicated four person crews at the base before the lone climber straddled the top to work with both hands free reigned supreme and hydraulic motorized 'zoom-booms' became commonplace. Remember when the first pneumatic "air lifts" came out, the springy ones that rose on three 36' telescoping pneumatic cylinders? Remember when you and your tools used to clamber aboard, tramp on the foot operated valve until you slowly ascended to your desired height using your hands and arms to breast drops, borders and LX pipes out of your way and the label instructed you to stand on the gripper for the ACL and continue adding pressurized air until the lift was stable with the ACL under tension?I'm now sitting down to design a quad-copter powered personnel lift that will allow work at any height in any location with no load on the floor. I'm going to be a billionaire and you will all thank me.
With the right amount of radium, both you and the bread get toasted! Brilliant@I plan to make my billion by inventing a high speed toaster. As someone that has spent a lot of time in hotel breakfast areas waiting for toast, I'm sure there is a huge market. I figure a combination of gas flames, microwaves, and flash of radiation - just a little piece of radium - ought to do it.
Solves social security and Medicare running out on money as well.With the right amount of radium, both you and the bread get toasted! Brilliant@
@kicknargel I'm loving it and definitely NOT laughing. It's easy to think back to a time when scissor lifts were not only unheard of but not within anyone's wildest imagination or future thoughts, trestle ladders loose-pinned onto custom built dollies accompanied by dedicated four person crews at the base before the lone climber straddled the top to work with both hands free reigned supreme and hydraulic motorized 'zoom-booms' became commonplace. Remember when the first pneumatic "air lifts" came out, the springy ones that rose on three 36' telescoping pneumatic cylinders? Remember when you and your tools used to clamber aboard, tramp on the foot operated valve until you slowly ascended to your desired height using your hands and arms to breast drops, borders and LX pipes out of your way and the label instructed you to stand on the gripper for the ACL and continue adding pressurized air until the lift was stable with the ACL under tension?
If you're still with me, I'm certain you can still recall leaning hard into your hammer-drill to drill holes in your poured concrete ceiling to secure 'tamp-in' anchors only to find your knees rising up to your shoulders when you'd completed drilling a hole due to your efforts having effectively further compressed the lift down just enough to release the brake's grip on the tensioning cable.
Yeah, you too remember those days and the first generations of those lifts.
@kicknargel , as I said 'way back on page 1, I'm loving your vision and I'm most emphatically NOT laughing.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
@MPowers Matching your memories and recalling the blocks as 3 to 2 blocks each reeved with approximately 400' of 5/8" hemp to tour 60' venues.I do indeed remember all the above. Including the A frame on a rolling 4x8 wagon, but without the 4 helpers. I've "heard" that "some people" would move themselves py pulling sideways on the pipe, .... or so I've "heard." The same with early Geni's before we learned about outriggers........ so I've "heard!"
When I first started rigging there were no such things as chain motors. Rigging in an auditorium meant climbing up and placing a block and fall. When everything was in place, a whole LOT of stagehands hauled at once! Of course we weren't rigging 20,000 lb. concert ceilings with s0 or more movers. It took a lot longer to rig all the block and falls than todays chain motors. We had two complete sets of rigging and Ron (lead rigger) and I would leapfrog a stop ahead and rig everything, go back to the gig that is striking, run strike, next day pull all the rigging from the grid and trusses, leap ahead and start over. We prayed for for at least 4 day weekend runs and cursed the promoter for one night stands.
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