Ben Stiegler
Well-Known Member
can you share those recommendations?
More Covidiots/ranting.
- Thread starterWhat Rigger?
- Start date
MarshallPope
Well-Known Member
jtweigandt
Well-Known Member
I meet weekly with a church music director, a school music teacher, and a university symphony director. The symphony director has delved deeply into the studies and consulted with peers. They are of the opinion that there is no way to do choirs or woodwinds safely. Singing is extremely good at spreading the virus, even with a mask. 6 feet of separation isn't enough, more like 16 feet for singing. Flutists need to be in a room by themselves.
School openings are risky enough without the additional risk of music, plays, and sports. I can't understand why a district would increase the chances of illness and closure by doing optional activities. Use better judgement, people!
School openings are risky enough without the additional risk of music, plays, and sports. I can't understand why a district would increase the chances of illness and closure by doing optional activities. Use better judgement, people!
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Lextech
Well-Known Member
I'm at a University and have students who are senior music majors that need ensemble or conducting credit to graduate so this is not "optional" for us. My faculty have been doing research also and come to place where they and our health and safety people are agreeable to proceed. As for safety, I am the saftey committee member in the venues and I take this very seriously for many reasons, not the least of which is a wife in the at risk category so I really don't want to bring this home. My music venue is new and has the right kind of HVAC to promote the required airflow and exchange. Even with that we have strict time limits in space, rehearsals will be capped at 30 minutes at a time. We are using the entire hall for choir rehearsals, some on stage, some in the house, straight lines, staggered and spaced. As for my other two older venues, plans are still being refined as to how theatre rehearsals and filming will occur. We are not having audiences at concerts or plays, just recording and streaming. I have concerns, as we all do about reopening and having to close again and it's affect on higher ed and our industry in general. Will we be safe, I hope so.
kiwitechgirl
Well-Known Member
There are a couple of studies happening in Colorado around woodwind instruments, and the Royal Opera House orchestra in London is doing some work on it as well. My understanding is that you don’t get much out the end of the instrument - the fewer twists and turns in the instrument, the greater the amount of droplets, so a French horn is going to have a lot less than a clarinet, given the amount of tubing it has. Flutes are obviously a very different story given they way they produce the sound. We’re off until mid-December at the earliest - our winter opera season got cancelled and the spring ballet season too; the ballet company is Melbourne-based so they’re not going anywhere right now! We’re hoping to open our summer season on New Year’s Eve. However, if we have to socially distance the orchestra, we can get 26 players into our pit, which isn’t practical. Looking at whether we can use a bigger studio elsewhere in the building and pipe it through, which we have actually done before. NSW is down to single digit cases daily, and has been for a week or so, which is promising if we can keep it up. 15-20,000 tests being done most days.
There are two commercial musicals scheduled to open in the not too distant future here - Pippin in November and a Frozen in December (should have opened in June); I think they’re walking a very fine line between optimistic and unrealistic.
There are two commercial musicals scheduled to open in the not too distant future here - Pippin in November and a Frozen in December (should have opened in June); I think they’re walking a very fine line between optimistic and unrealistic.
What Rigger?
I'm so fly....I Neverland.
Annnnnd here come the post-mortem Harley's up for sale- real cheap! Family tragedy forces sale. Make offer.
What Rigger?
I'm so fly....I Neverland.
@Lextech, I've got some questions and some issues. Help me out? I'm going to use blue below to ask.
I'm at a University and have students who are senior music majors that need ensemble or conducting credit to graduate so this is not "optional" for us. This already sounds like rationalization. Is the University really telling students they must show up in person during a pandemic, otherwise not graduate? What kind of ridiculous choice is that? "I got intubated, but at least I got a BA!". My faculty have been doing research (What constitutes "research"? ) also and come to place where they and our health and safety people (how does the latests science and CDC information play into this? Is this simply the University health & safety people?) are agreeable to proceed. As for safety, I am the saftey committee member in the venues and I take this very seriously for many reasons, not the least of which is a wife in the at risk category so I really don't want to bring this home. My music venue is new and has the right kind of HVAC to promote the required airflow and exchange. Even with that we have strict time limits in space, rehearsals will be capped at 30 minutes at a time. We are using the entire hall for choir rehearsals, some on stage, some in the house, straight lines, staggered and spaced. As for my other two older venues, plans are still being refined as to how theatre rehearsals and filming will occur. (In light of Notre Dame having put their hubris on display and shutting down because of the very predictable outbreak, how does this affect your operation now?) We are not having audiences at concerts or plays, just recording and streaming. I have concerns, as we all do about reopening and having to close again and it's affect on higher ed and our industry in general. (Shouldn't the concerns be ONLY on life safety/public health? Why is re-closing and the effect on the industry a concern for your University? Will we be safe, I hope so. This statement is bone chilling. This is literally a shoulder shrug and a "hang onto your butts" response. It is rolling the dice with the safety of someone's child, not to mention your wife. If this was anyone's response to a rigging issue, nothing would go in the air. If you're the safety committee member in your venues, how does your employer justify this laissez-faire approach? I'm asking because I'm seeing this a lot in educational environments: the lip service being paid to safety and used-car salesman believability when promises of "safety first!" are made by administrators, but the actions being taken betray the real objective: get back in here and lets get going because we have to impress our superiors that we did a thing, to hell with teachers, staff and students in reality. You're waist deep in it, can you paint us a bigger, more detailed picture? Thanks in advance!
I'm at a University and have students who are senior music majors that need ensemble or conducting credit to graduate so this is not "optional" for us. This already sounds like rationalization. Is the University really telling students they must show up in person during a pandemic, otherwise not graduate? What kind of ridiculous choice is that? "I got intubated, but at least I got a BA!". My faculty have been doing research (What constitutes "research"? ) also and come to place where they and our health and safety people (how does the latests science and CDC information play into this? Is this simply the University health & safety people?) are agreeable to proceed. As for safety, I am the saftey committee member in the venues and I take this very seriously for many reasons, not the least of which is a wife in the at risk category so I really don't want to bring this home. My music venue is new and has the right kind of HVAC to promote the required airflow and exchange. Even with that we have strict time limits in space, rehearsals will be capped at 30 minutes at a time. We are using the entire hall for choir rehearsals, some on stage, some in the house, straight lines, staggered and spaced. As for my other two older venues, plans are still being refined as to how theatre rehearsals and filming will occur. (In light of Notre Dame having put their hubris on display and shutting down because of the very predictable outbreak, how does this affect your operation now?) We are not having audiences at concerts or plays, just recording and streaming. I have concerns, as we all do about reopening and having to close again and it's affect on higher ed and our industry in general. (Shouldn't the concerns be ONLY on life safety/public health? Why is re-closing and the effect on the industry a concern for your University? Will we be safe, I hope so. This statement is bone chilling. This is literally a shoulder shrug and a "hang onto your butts" response. It is rolling the dice with the safety of someone's child, not to mention your wife. If this was anyone's response to a rigging issue, nothing would go in the air. If you're the safety committee member in your venues, how does your employer justify this laissez-faire approach? I'm asking because I'm seeing this a lot in educational environments: the lip service being paid to safety and used-car salesman believability when promises of "safety first!" are made by administrators, but the actions being taken betray the real objective: get back in here and lets get going because we have to impress our superiors that we did a thing, to hell with teachers, staff and students in reality. You're waist deep in it, can you paint us a bigger, more detailed picture? Thanks in advance!
I'd been trying to write a response that was balanced and not overly "WTF" in response to Lex's post.
I have several issues (12 issues to a volume!) but let's start with the health and safety of university employees. The Uni has a duty of care to provide a safe workplace. If policy is set, or practices used, that do not comport with CDC/state health guidance I think the Uni will have a hard time getting people to work, and retaliation or threats of retaliation are a direct violation of the OSH Act.
The rest are represented by @What Rigger? post.
I have several issues (12 issues to a volume!) but let's start with the health and safety of university employees. The Uni has a duty of care to provide a safe workplace. If policy is set, or practices used, that do not comport with CDC/state health guidance I think the Uni will have a hard time getting people to work, and retaliation or threats of retaliation are a direct violation of the OSH Act.
The rest are represented by @What Rigger? post.
Lextech
Well-Known Member
Let me preface this by saying I have been passing on my employers plan for reopening, I am doing this because there are many thoughts on the subject, some well thought out some not so much. My first concern, above all else is the safety of everyone involved. If I thought that this was a bad idea, I would not pass it on. Also this, again, is not my plan, it is something that has been worked out based on guideance from CDC, the Commonwealth of Virginia, the research coming out of the University of Colorado who seem to be the ones collecting the studies as well as Public Health Ontario and one out of Germany. Those are just the ones I have been forwarded, the Music department has done the leg work on this and has more info then they felt nessasary that I have. If people want links, message me, I will share.
No one is being forced to attend anything. A comment was made above that the arts were optional, if it were extraciricular at this level I am sure that like all sports here, they would be cancelled. They are an academic subject with distict challenges as are many other subjects like art studios, science labs and physical education classes. Any student can take classes virtually and any faculty or staff can telecommute if their job allows. So I know a bunch of professors teaching virtually this semester and know of a handful of students doing the same. I have my views on the plans and am trying to keep neutral on this forum, my views are just that, mine and the few comments I have included maybe should not have been posted. My concerns about the effects of reclosing on the industry comment were meant that on this forum and in the entertainment industry in general we are worried about the long term, with no tours out and Broadway dark many people want to go back to work. If any segment of the entertainment industry is found to be a cause of further out breaks then we will be dark for longer. The University could care less about it, I lost a summer season at my other gig, those thoughts are mine alone.
In Virginia all university reopening plans have had to be approved by the Governor's office, he happens to be an MD by the way. My employer has an MD on staff reviewing all classroom plans with the safety office and the facilities people. It has been interesting in my two building feeling the HVAC change as they try and attain the correct air pressure to get the air exchange right. Everyone got tested as they came back to campus, students will be tested weekly. Class schedules have been altered to allow enough time for classroom air to be cycled out before the next class starts. My concert hall that seats 301 has classes in it of less then 40 to space the students out.
All this leads me to this, we are not a large school and we are in the middle of nowhere. One county over they got their first positive test result in July and we have very few cases in this county. The administration, faculty and staff want this to work and are committed to the plan. Why you ask? Well when we closed up in March they said everyone would be kept on. They paid everyone through their contracts, meaning 9 month employees who normally don't work past the end of May were paid through May. Hell they paid the part time tech employees their average working hours for two and a half months. However, many of us are aware that if the kids go home that will not happen again. If anyone has a chance to make this work it is here. Mask use in mandatory, even when singing. If I thought that the plan was not workable I would not be here.
Lastly @What Rigger? , my "will we be safe" comment is not a shoulder shrug or anything other then a desire that this works. Please don't read anything into it. Like you I would never fly an unsafe rig, I believe that this plan can work, safely, and will do what I can to make it work. Unfortunately, I am afraid that this plan and ones like it are not the weak point in any university plan. The problem will be alcohol and parties. In all of the recent reversals of major universities that I have seen, off campus parties have been linked to the outbreaks.
No one is being forced to attend anything. A comment was made above that the arts were optional, if it were extraciricular at this level I am sure that like all sports here, they would be cancelled. They are an academic subject with distict challenges as are many other subjects like art studios, science labs and physical education classes. Any student can take classes virtually and any faculty or staff can telecommute if their job allows. So I know a bunch of professors teaching virtually this semester and know of a handful of students doing the same. I have my views on the plans and am trying to keep neutral on this forum, my views are just that, mine and the few comments I have included maybe should not have been posted. My concerns about the effects of reclosing on the industry comment were meant that on this forum and in the entertainment industry in general we are worried about the long term, with no tours out and Broadway dark many people want to go back to work. If any segment of the entertainment industry is found to be a cause of further out breaks then we will be dark for longer. The University could care less about it, I lost a summer season at my other gig, those thoughts are mine alone.
In Virginia all university reopening plans have had to be approved by the Governor's office, he happens to be an MD by the way. My employer has an MD on staff reviewing all classroom plans with the safety office and the facilities people. It has been interesting in my two building feeling the HVAC change as they try and attain the correct air pressure to get the air exchange right. Everyone got tested as they came back to campus, students will be tested weekly. Class schedules have been altered to allow enough time for classroom air to be cycled out before the next class starts. My concert hall that seats 301 has classes in it of less then 40 to space the students out.
All this leads me to this, we are not a large school and we are in the middle of nowhere. One county over they got their first positive test result in July and we have very few cases in this county. The administration, faculty and staff want this to work and are committed to the plan. Why you ask? Well when we closed up in March they said everyone would be kept on. They paid everyone through their contracts, meaning 9 month employees who normally don't work past the end of May were paid through May. Hell they paid the part time tech employees their average working hours for two and a half months. However, many of us are aware that if the kids go home that will not happen again. If anyone has a chance to make this work it is here. Mask use in mandatory, even when singing. If I thought that the plan was not workable I would not be here.
Lastly @What Rigger? , my "will we be safe" comment is not a shoulder shrug or anything other then a desire that this works. Please don't read anything into it. Like you I would never fly an unsafe rig, I believe that this plan can work, safely, and will do what I can to make it work. Unfortunately, I am afraid that this plan and ones like it are not the weak point in any university plan. The problem will be alcohol and parties. In all of the recent reversals of major universities that I have seen, off campus parties have been linked to the outbreaks.
What Rigger?
I'm so fly....I Neverland.
Roger that!
Lextech
Well-Known Member
We are in session with a combination of in person and online. Most of the online involves personal decisions by faculty not to risk exposure for various reasons or students and staff that have either tested positive or were exposed to someone who tested positive and are isolating. All performances are being taped or streamed. Our theater program is just about done with their fall show taping in the blackbox, now comes a ton of editing. Music has become a 4 recording a week mess, we had to add a significant amount of fixtures to light the venue. Choir is now using the entire hall in a 360° set up to maintain distancing and the instrumental ensembles are using a good portion of the space in front of the stage where we normally have portable seating. Normally top light is LED as is a large chunk of the front. Now we have the fun of adding conventionals and their color tempreatures, angles that don't match and then cameras that even when white balanced can't seem to look the same in post. In my large space the dance floor is going down this week and then we start gearing up for filming. More solos then normal and we will be shooting 2 dances outside as well as some ensemble dances that will be shot one dancer at a time and edited together in post.
So we are halfway through our semester, we have screwy 12 week semesters, and so far are managing to stay open. They are testing dorm sewer systems daily for covid, testing at risk students twice a week in the main lobby here and are cracking down on parties and other gatherings. We are done with everything by Thanksgiving and are starting back later then normal to allow time for two weeks after the holidays for people to isolate. That's about it, life is not normal but it is happening.
So we are halfway through our semester, we have screwy 12 week semesters, and so far are managing to stay open. They are testing dorm sewer systems daily for covid, testing at risk students twice a week in the main lobby here and are cracking down on parties and other gatherings. We are done with everything by Thanksgiving and are starting back later then normal to allow time for two weeks after the holidays for people to isolate. That's about it, life is not normal but it is happening.
Thanks, it's good to hear that creative people continue to over-reach our facilities and challenge our curated technical sensibilities. 
Aside from the vicarious living aspect... learning from what you've seen and experienced the first semester would be welcomed. There are others both academic and commercial who are returning to work. Hearing about the work-arounds and other changes to the way we used to do things would be insightful. Perhaps we should start a new topic outside of the Safety forum?
Aside from the vicarious living aspect... learning from what you've seen and experienced the first semester would be welcomed. There are others both academic and commercial who are returning to work. Hearing about the work-arounds and other changes to the way we used to do things would be insightful. Perhaps we should start a new topic outside of the Safety forum?
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Lextech
Well-Known Member
The biggest takeaway from the semester so far is be prepared to change, often. You can't worry about what you can't control, department chairs have had to explain to faculty that their art is not the highest priority, and teaching is now secondary. Health and safety, at least here, is number one. I am in a strange place since I work with the academic departments but report to the center. I am included in some decisions and left out of others.
As more studies have come out our choir rehearsals and filming in particular have changed. We are now in 30 minute blocks compared to hour rehearsals and 90 minute shows. Theater had the student cast come together and request to be tested before filming started, luckily the university had the infrastructure in place to be able to do that. Dance has had multiple dancers opt out, get sick or exposed or go virtual. I will know how many pieces we actually have when we are done shooting.
If we want to start a new thread I think the Safety Forum or Operations would be the place to host it.
As more studies have come out our choir rehearsals and filming in particular have changed. We are now in 30 minute blocks compared to hour rehearsals and 90 minute shows. Theater had the student cast come together and request to be tested before filming started, luckily the university had the infrastructure in place to be able to do that. Dance has had multiple dancers opt out, get sick or exposed or go virtual. I will know how many pieces we actually have when we are done shooting.
If we want to start a new thread I think the Safety Forum or Operations would be the place to host it.
What Rigger?
I'm so fly....I Neverland.
So, let's add on to what Lex reported.
I completed a Covid Compliance Officer for Music Video, Film, Commercials, and Tv (I think that's the whole title) yesterday. I'm not encouraged by the immediate future. One big takeaway is: being a CCO means showing up before everyone else on the call, and going home after everyone else on the call. If you have familiarity with how TV/Film works, you know that's easily a 15 hour day minimum.
What extrapolates to the live sphere, I think, is that everything takes longer now. Because you have to stagger lunches, or stagger how many departments/people are in a space at once. Rule of thumb- everything takes 3 times longer now. Ventilation is king. Fans don't cut it. Air sterilizers/purifiers don't cut it. Open windows- not even.
Masks really are the best thing we've got and they work. So much about the work methods we know are off the table in part or in total for the foreseeable future. I know I'm preaching to the choir.
I live across the street from Cal State Long Beach. They let about 300 students back into the dorms for this semester. They allowed a total of 3000 students and instructors back, mostly for stuff that "has to" happen in person (labs and such, but there's nobody building sets in the Theatre Arts dept!). They now are in the midst of a 14 day "pause in instruction" becuase they have-surpise-25 cases of Covid in the dorms after about 8 weeks of classes. Who knew? My brother in law is one of the University's VP's and he knew it was going to happen, but the Chancellor is still hell bent to open the campuses state wide in "de-densified" configuration.
I completed a Covid Compliance Officer for Music Video, Film, Commercials, and Tv (I think that's the whole title) yesterday. I'm not encouraged by the immediate future. One big takeaway is: being a CCO means showing up before everyone else on the call, and going home after everyone else on the call. If you have familiarity with how TV/Film works, you know that's easily a 15 hour day minimum.
What extrapolates to the live sphere, I think, is that everything takes longer now. Because you have to stagger lunches, or stagger how many departments/people are in a space at once. Rule of thumb- everything takes 3 times longer now. Ventilation is king. Fans don't cut it. Air sterilizers/purifiers don't cut it. Open windows- not even.
Masks really are the best thing we've got and they work. So much about the work methods we know are off the table in part or in total for the foreseeable future. I know I'm preaching to the choir.
I live across the street from Cal State Long Beach. They let about 300 students back into the dorms for this semester. They allowed a total of 3000 students and instructors back, mostly for stuff that "has to" happen in person (labs and such, but there's nobody building sets in the Theatre Arts dept!). They now are in the midst of a 14 day "pause in instruction" becuase they have-surpise-25 cases of Covid in the dorms after about 8 weeks of classes. Who knew? My brother in law is one of the University's VP's and he knew it was going to happen, but the Chancellor is still hell bent to open the campuses state wide in "de-densified" configuration.
I think I took the same class (linked elsewhere) you did.
I'm teaching a 1 hour "what to expect" class to my IATSE Local's stewards and head carps next weekend. I think they're going to be surprised about the consistency with which compliance is expected, and how much longer things will take. My Local provided local crew to a parking lot "drive in" concert last week so a few of my people got a little taste.
I'm teaching a 1 hour "what to expect" class to my IATSE Local's stewards and head carps next weekend. I think they're going to be surprised about the consistency with which compliance is expected, and how much longer things will take. My Local provided local crew to a parking lot "drive in" concert last week so a few of my people got a little taste.
So like working at any convention center in America?
Well... with no convention work on the horizon, we can say they're well prepared for the eventuality...
McCormick Place in Chicago... twice as long, three times the money. I do not miss it.