Casey's ANSI rant on HPLs

[Casey]

I guess I prefer 750s (HPL750/115x) just because they've got that little extra if you need it. I don't typically find that I'm running too many lights at full, so the higher wattage gives a larger range to play with. However, I find that it depends on what the space already has. If I'd doing a show at a theatre that has an inventory of s-4's already, I would rarely rent over their inventory and ask for different wattage. The only exception I could think of would be if the space is limited on power (distribution or dimmers). I run into those crappy leppi packs that can only push 1.2k and in that situation it is dangerous to try 2-fering anything when you have the 750s. Also, many of the storefronts in Chicago have limited power distribution so they stock HPL575/115x's just to get more lights into the rig. It really just depends.

And while were on the subject, I would like to criticize ETC for their misuse of the ANSI code HLP. They were a major contender in the HPL lamp being produced thus their seeming ownership of the idea of a source four. But then the wanted to change the wattage of these lamps, in which case they should have gotten a new ANSI code. There should never have been two different wattage lamps with the same ANSI code, that defeats the purpose of having a code you can tell someone and be assured you are getting the correct product. You can easily order a BTL and know that you are getting a Q500T6/CL/P JCS120V-500WBP28 or "Tubular/Medium Prefocus/500w/120v/127.0 mm MOL/55.5 mm LCL" lamp. If you ask for an HPL now, you need to be more specific. GO WITH THE STANDARDS PEOPLE, that way we can be sure we are ordering what we want.

...I'm just saying.

 

[Grog12]

Re: I like to lamp my S4's at....

I guess I prefer 750s (HPL750/115x) just because they've got that little extra if you need it. I don't typically find that I'm running too many lights at full, so the higher wattage gives a larger range to play with. However, I find that it depends on what the space already has. If I'd doing a show at a theatre that has an inventory of s-4's already, I would rarely rent over their inventory and ask for different wattage. The only exception I could think of would be if the space is limited on power (distribution or dimmers). I run into those crappy leppi packs that can only push 1.2k and in that situation it is dangerous to try 2-fering anything when you have the 750s. Also, many of the storefronts in Chicago have limited power distribution so they stock HPL575/115x's just to get more lights into the rig. It really just depends.

And while were on the subject, I would like to criticize ETC for their misuse of the ANSI code HLP. They were a major contender in the HPL lamp being produced thus their seeming ownership of the idea of a source four. But then the wanted to change the wattage of these lamps, in which case they should have gotten a new ANSI code. There should never have been two different wattage lamps with the same ANSI code, that defeats the purpose of having a code you can tell someone and be assured you are getting the correct product. You can easily order a BTL and know that you are getting a Q500T6/CL/P JCS120V-500WBP28 or "Tubular/Medium Prefocus/500w/120v/127.0 mm MOL/55.5 mm LCL" lamp. If you ask for an HPL now, you need to be more specific. GO WITH THE STANDARDS PEOPLE, that way we can be sure we are ordering what we want.

...I'm just saying.

Define what you mean by larger watts gives you larger room to play with.

Also HPL (if memory serves Derek, Ship correct me if I'm wrong) isn't an ANSI code.

 

[Clifford]

Re: I like to lamp my S4's at....

I always thought HPL was ANSI. That's what it's always listed as when I order lamps.

 

[derekleffew]

Re: I like to lamp my S4's at....

HPL simply stands for High Performance Lamp. In order to be ANSI-Listed, a three letter code must refer to a unique lamp. Users never took kindly to the 1200W Ushio FEL, brighter than every other manufacturers' 1000W FEL.

If only there were a representative of ETC about to explain why HPL lamps don't have ANSI codes... (I suspect they'll blame it on Sylvania!)...

 

[Casey]

Re: I like to lamp my S4's at....

HPL is used interchangably as an ANSI code which is kind of my point, there as supposed to one ANSI code per one lamp type but the manufacturers list the ANSI code for them as something like "HPL 575/115v", which is obviously not an ANSI code.

For example: BTL, BTN, BVT are all P28S base 120v lamps that are for Fresnels. Basically the same except for the wattage (BTL 500w/BTN 750w/BVT 1Kw) and can be used interchangeably. (alright, you might not want to swap a BVT into a standard Altman 6" fresnel, but you get the point.) If you call and order a BTN, you don't have to specify that you want a 750w extended life lamp as apposed to the BTP which is exactly the same as the BTN, but with a shorter lamp life and slightly less lumen output.

Basically, HPL should be an ANSI code, it is just used improperly and is therefore not and this is what annoys me. Every time you put out a different product, you need to use a new and different ANSI code to describe that product. That is why the codes idea exists, to make life easier. So use them.

And when I said more room to play with I meant more headroom on light output ("My amp goes to 11"), why go with a 575 when you could have a 750. If you only need the output of a 575 with a 750 lamp you can put the lamp at like 60%. If this gives you amber shift problems it will be consistent through the whole system and if it is still a problem I would rather color correct than relamp part of an inventory (because it is real easy to not lamp them back at a strike and then next show in will curse your name when they come in and there are all different lamps messing with their should be even washes. But all of this is my opinion on the matter.

 

[derekleffew]

Re: I like to lamp my S4's at....

Casey, may I suggest you join ANSI and immediately lobby to get them to enact the following LAMP CODES. Then force all lamp manufacturers to comply.

ANSI# ETC Part # Lamp Code Watts Volts Initial Lumens Color Temp. K Average Rated Life Cd MF Lm MF
HPL= RT116 HPL 750/115 750 115 21,900 3,250 300 1.00 1.00
HPA= RT196 HPL 750/115X 750 115 16,400 3,050 1,500 .64 .74
HPB= RT113 HPL 575/115 575 115 16,520 3,250 300 .78 .82
HPC= RT114 HPL 575/115X 575 115 12,360 3,050 2,000 .56 .56
HPD= RT142 HPL 375/115 375 115 10,540 3,250 300 .66 .52
HPE= RT143 HPL 375/115X 375 115 8,500 3,050 1,000 .45 .40
HPF= N/A HPL 750/120 750 120 21,900 3,250 300 1.00 1.00
HPG= N/A HPL 750/120X 750 120 16,400 3,050 1,500 .64 .74
HPH= RT115 HPL 575/120 575 120 16,520 3,250 300 .78 .82
HPI= RT171 HPL 575/120X 575 120 12,360 3,050 2,000 .56 .56
HPJ= RT112 HPL 550/77* 550 77 16,170 3,250 300 .77 .77
HPK= HRT117 HPL 550/77X* 550 77 12,160 3,050 2,000 .59 .56

Let us know how this turns out for you.

 

[Casey]

Re: I like to lamp my S4's at....

Clever...
although I don't think that the 26deg candela multiplication factor and the 26deg lumen multiplication factor would have anything to do with ANSI, since those relate only directly to the ETC S/4 26deg ellipsiodal cut sheet that you ripped those numbers off of. Other than that, good idea!

PS we are totally off topic now. That was my doing. Sorry.

Move to the ANSI rant board.

 

[MNicolai]

I actually prefer knowing the lamp base in the name, and having the details set aside. It's like a blackbox theatre. You're given the basics, but you can manipulate the details however you want.

As far as wattage differences, the intensity vs. power consumption relationship isn't linear. Just because you run a 750 @ 76% does not mean you're consuming only 575 watts, you're actually consuming more. The same deal applies to 375's, and for dimmer doublers, the necessary 77v 500w lamp. So whenever power is a limitation, problem-solving isn't as easy as running the lamps at lower intensities.

 

[Grog12]

Re: I like to lamp my S4's at....

Casey, may I suggest you join ANSI and immediately lobby to get them to enact the following LAMP CODES. Then force all lamp manufacturers to comply.

ANSI# ETC Part # Lamp Code Watts Volts Initial Lumens Color Temp. K Average Rated Life Cd MF Lm MF
HPL= RT116 HPL 750/115 750 115 21,900 3,250 300 1.00 1.00
HPA= RT196 HPL 750/115X 750 115 16,400 3,050 1,500 .64 .74
HPB= RT113 HPL 575/115 575 115 16,520 3,250 300 .78 .82
HPC= RT114 HPL 575/115X 575 115 12,360 3,050 2,000 .56 .56
HPD= RT142 HPL 375/115 375 115 10,540 3,250 300 .66 .52
HPE= RT143 HPL 375/115X 375 115 8,500 3,050 1,000 .45 .40
HPF= N/A HPL 750/120 750 120 21,900 3,250 300 1.00 1.00
HPG= N/A HPL 750/120X 750 120 16,400 3,050 1,500 .64 .74
HPH= RT115 HPL 575/120 575 120 16,520 3,250 300 .78 .82
HPI= RT171 HPL 575/120X 575 120 12,360 3,050 2,000 .56 .56
HPJ= RT112 HPL 550/77* 550 77 16,170 3,250 300 .77 .77
HPK= HRT117 HPL 550/77X* 550 77 12,160 3,050 2,000 .59 .56

Let us know how this turns out for you.

Deeeeeeaaaaamn Derek...

I don't know what's funnier this post..
Or the fact that you took the time to compile it!

Bravo! Seriously Bravo!

And when I said more room to play with I meant more headroom on light output ("My amp goes to 11"), why go with a 575 when you could have a 750. If you only need the output of a 575 with a 750 lamp you can put the lamp at like 60%. If this gives you amber shift problems it will be consistent through the whole system and if it is still a problem I would rather color correct than relamp part of an inventory (because it is real easy to not lamp them back at a strike and then next show in will curse your name when they come in and there are all different lamps messing with their should be even washes. But all of this is my opinion on the matter.

Yes yes it is a matter of opinion. That's exactly what it is.