Best color rendition RGB LED fixture?

Hey Everybody,

I've got a project coming up that requires me to use some type of LED (par would probably be the best choice) and am concerned about two things: true color rendition on faces and smoothness of dimming up and down during the shot.

Here's the rig. Vehicle driving with LEDs mounted on the outside in various places and wirelessly controlled back to me in a follow vehicle. The camera is in various places depending on the shot.

All the LEDs I have used in the past have had proven difficult to get a clean 3200K without some odd spikes in other colors. Also, I have noticed in the past, the fixtures I have used like an old Chauvet LED Par that when I dim up its not smooth but somewhat jittery on the way up. Not something you would really notice for a stage show but you would on a close up on a face.

Does anyone have any suggestions of a good LED without these issues? Also, are there any long LED bars with these same features that might work as well?

You are not going to get good color rendering on camera with an RGB fixture. Period. If you are looking for white light, go with white and amber LEDs. LEDs are narrow-band emitters and the way that their light is captured by digital video depends on so many different factors. While white LEDs still aren't full spectrum, you have a much better chance than with RGB.

As for dimming, just get better quality products. And look for fixtures with 16-bit intensity. That'll help.

Timotreous said:

Hey Everybody,

I've got a project coming up that requires me to use some type of LED (par would probably be the best choice) and am concerned about two things: true color rendition on faces and smoothness of dimming up and down during the shot.

Here's the rig. Vehicle driving with LEDs mounted on the outside in various places and wirelessly controlled back to me in a follow vehicle. The camera is in various places depending on the shot.

All the LEDs I have used in the past have had proven difficult to get a clean 3200K without some odd spikes in other colors. Also, I have noticed in the past, the fixtures I have used like an old Chauvet LED Par that when I dim up its not smooth but somewhat jittery on the way up. Not something you would really notice for a stage show but you would on a close up on a face.

Does anyone have any suggestions of a good LED without these issues? Also, are there any long LED bars with these same features that might work as well?

Click to expand...

ETC Selador fixtures will give you the best CRI for a LED fixture. The cost may be the issue for you there. They are not JUST RGB, but also include Cyan, Magenta and Amber. I believe they offer 7 and 11 color LED units. The Studio series may be best for video applications...

I saw the Selador line at LDI prior to ETC buying the company and was very impressed with their color rendering. With ETC at the helm, I must believe the units have only improved.

I have a question - why LED? If it is for power / energy usage ( and you really want white light) - then you want to use a white LED and not try to create a white look mixing colors. I have no strong recommendation re what brand to look at in white LED's. Most will do a good job ( may have some jitters at the low end of the dimming range ) .
If you are want color, the Selador series by ETC is the best way to go as it has more colors to play with so you get a much better CRI.
If you are shooting film or video, look for something that advertises itself as 'flicker free' Or a fixture that lets you modify the flicker rate so it does not interact badly with your camera.

BanditRO said:

ETC Selador fixtures will give you the best CRI for a LED fixture. The cost may be the issue for you there. They are not JUST RGB, but also include Cyan, Magenta and Amber. I believe they offer 7 and 11 color LED units. The Studio series may be best for video applications...

Click to expand...

The Selador x7 colors are red, orange, amber, green, cyan, blue, indigo. There is no 11 color fixture, to my knowledge.

Have you looked at the Selecon PL1 and PL3 units? I really like their CRI. Will be using them on a theater install next year.

If you need just white light I would look at the Selador Desire Studio, it is designed to do what it sounds like you are looking for. http://www.etcconnect.com/product.overview.aspx?ID=22060


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Timotreous said:

Hey Everybody,

I've got a project coming up that requires me to use some type of LED (par would probably be the best choice) and am concerned about two things: true color rendition on faces and smoothness of dimming up and down during the shot.

Here's the rig. Vehicle driving with LEDs mounted on the outside in various places and wirelessly controlled back to me in a follow vehicle. The camera is in various places depending on the shot.

All the LEDs I have used in the past have had proven difficult to get a clean 3200K without some odd spikes in other colors. Also, I have noticed in the past, the fixtures I have used like an old Chauvet LED Par that when I dim up its not smooth but somewhat jittery on the way up. Not something you would really notice for a stage show but you would on a close up on a face.

Does anyone have any suggestions of a good LED without these issues? Also, are there any long LED bars with these same features that might work as well?

Click to expand...

Why not use a plethora of conventional units powered by a battery?

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I am going to look into those suggestions.

I need options for color mixing because my boss wants options. I might commit to a couple LitePanels for 3200 or 5600 applications that will stay mostly static, but still need some RGB units that I can dial in at separate color temps within the shot. We are doing a lot of night car shooting and I need to be able to give him what he wants.

I also need to be able to power these lights from essentially a car battery and inverter. No putt putts on board. That's why all LEDs.

Any thoughts on a good (and long) led bar that will allow me to chase the LEDs from one end to the next to replicate a light passing by overhead?

Look at fixtures offering RGBAW color mixing. They can achieve the values you require for much less expense than anything from Selador.

The best color rendering for film with LEDs (flat out) is the MoleLED fixture from Mole Richardson. Those fixtures were designed specifically for the color response in film and to the human eye. It uses remote phosphor to achieve true color rendering, not RGB. Also- they have small bar (1-pack) units designed for small locations like inside a vehicle.

You won't find a single RGB LED fixture that comes even close on film (or off).

I shot video of a Mole LED demo last year at LDI. Here's the link. It's definitely the best option for LED and film. Unlike everything else out there it was specifically designed to create white light that looks good on film.

gafftaper said:

I shot video of a Mole LED demo last year at LDI. Here's the link. It's definitely the best option for LED and film. Unlike everything else out there it was specifically designed to create white light that looks good on film.

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How many of your children do they want for it tho?

shiben said:

How many of your children do they want for it tho?

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For the luxury-car price of a 24K Xenon fresnel and other goods, I don't want to know what any LED item would cost.

zmb said:

For the luxury-car price of a 24K Xenon fresnel ...

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I don't know anyone making a xenon lamp fresnel, in any wattage. But there ARE HMI fresnels in 12/18/24K sizes--definitely falls into the BFL category.

derekleffew said:

I don't know anyone making a xenon lamp fresnel, in any wattage. But there ARE HMI fresnels in 12/18/24K sizes--definitely falls into the BFL category.

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It is acutally an HMI fresnel, mental mixup on my end. Thanks for catching that.
I like to think that it is a plug-in sun.

Timotreous said:

Hey Everybody,

I've got a project coming up that requires me to use some type of LED (par would probably be the best choice) and am concerned about two things: true color rendition on faces and smoothness of dimming up and down during the shot.

Here's the rig. Vehicle driving with LEDs mounted on the outside in various places and wirelessly controlled back to me in a follow vehicle. The camera is in various places depending on the shot.

All the LEDs I have used in the past have had proven difficult to get a clean 3200K without some odd spikes in other colors. Also, I have noticed in the past, the fixtures I have used like an old Chauvet LED Par that when I dim up its not smooth but somewhat jittery on the way up. Not something you would really notice for a stage show but you would on a close up on a face.

Does anyone have any suggestions of a good LED without these issues? Also, are there any long LED bars with these same features that might work as well?

Click to expand...

I'm a little late to the party here. Sorry I've been off list all weekend.

I've done this with Color Blasts on Sorcerer's Apprentice in 2009. We used a Hog IPC and a dozen CBs. That was before the XTR came out.

My LED of Choice for Film work right now is the Color Force. Its 4 channel, RGBA. The addition of the amber channel makes for a very reliable 3200 recreation. It also extends the color pallatte immensely, giving great lavenders and pinks. There is a ColorForce 1 which is the 12" variety with 2 fixtures per 12" unit. Note that an automated console like a ma or a hog is immensly preferred for this as you are able to pallatize the exact colors that you like for instant replay. Chase features are quick to build as well.

On the car rigs I never worried so much about the smooth dimming curve. The Color Blasts worked fine. I wouldn't go for colorados (their stepping is really bad I've found) There is so much happening on an insert rig that any steppiness gets lost in the action.

Interestingly I did this last night for Nurse Jackie. We used Inkys and tweenies and keyed it with lunestras inside the car (we taped them with Jlar to make them safe for the actors). I used my Pocket Console to control as we were hardline with soca and a trailer.

I've seen that the baxter Pocket console comes in a wireless variety. I think you could mount a router in the picture car and run the Pocket console I phone app from the follow vehicle. Dying to try it. You would have to be close! Maybe 100 yards? Put a Ma Pico in the trunk and run the PC into the DMX in and you would be able to fire 8 playbacks or executor buttons wirelessy.

We normally do process trailer rigs, or at least tow rigs, so we don't have to do wireless. This is mostly because the general feeling is that the actors can't be expected to act and operate the vehicle safely at the same time. I've seen it tried the other way where the actor was driving and it's, frankly, dangerous.