Control/Dimming Conventions of constructing solely LED Based facility

They aren't local to you, but I have been on building committees before that have dealt with Schuler Shook and they work all around the country and are a top notch firm.

Drop CB member/moderator museav a private message. Brad is a theater consultant. It's probably too far away for him to do it himself, but I'm sure he can help you find someone good.

Just to follow up on some of the excellent comments already made, it is indeed quite common for a consultant to be working with or for very technically competent parties. However, I have found that many very technically knowledgeable people have a knowledge based on a limited range of exposure and/or limited experience with the design and construction process. In simple terms, they may know a lot about how they do something but little about other ways to accomplish the same goals or how to work with the parties, processes and documentation involved in a construction project. I have had some clients that simply don't have the time to be a designer and Project Manager in addition to their other duties.

Such discussions always remind me of a particular project where we were working with very qualified and experienced tech staff who decided they could handle part of the project themselves. They did a great job of defining what equipment they wanted and initially apparently bragged to their superiors about how they were able to save them money. I heard through the grapevine that everything later went horribly wrong when it turned out that they thought they had bid an installed, functional system but the bidders interpreted their documents as being limited to providing the equipment, which explained the low bids and which they apparently realized when the company awarded the bid dropped off the equipment and when asked when they would be back to install it told the Owner that installation was not included in their bid. A great example of knowing the technology but not the design and construction processes.

Another point I wanted to bring up is that there seems to have been a lot of discussion on the specifics of the equipment but little or no discussion regarding the application or what you are trying to do. Unless the goal is to simply to use specific equipment then your client is probably more concerned about how the system supports their goals and vision and defining and documenting that, a needs analysis or assessment, is the place to start. You need to determine where you are trying to go before you can figure out how you should get there.

Finally, a professional Consultant, Contractor, Architect, etc. is going to address their role and liability. It's great that they have resources that may help them but who is actually going to be responsible for developing and assuming liability for any design or Bid Documents? And it's fun to play at being a consultant but that can take on a very different perspective when it means being held legally liable for your comments and work.

Thanks, museav, that's a great explanation.

Sometimes I just think it's funny that people seem to insist consultants be hired for the most minor of things- like a bartender at some crappy nightclub who posts to ask what Chauvet fixture he should get to supplement his two mismatched PAR cans.

We just contacted Barbizon, to have them help design and install everything, so we cut out the consultant cost.

ibmcclain said:

We just contacted Barbizon, to have them help design and install everything, so we cut out the consultant cost.

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My experiences with Barbizon here have been positive and you will probably get a good result. There are also some potential cost benefits to different approaches (design/build, design/bid/build, CM at risk, etc.) in different situations. However, based on experience as both a consultant and with a design/build firm as well as discussions with many others in the industry, the simple fact is that the effort and expertise required to plan, design, oversee, commission, etc. a project is much the same regardless of who provides that effort. Companies that suggest they will provide the same services as an independent consultant without any associated cost may simply hide those costs in some other aspect of the work or offset that investment with greater profit elsewhere, but realistically you are not going to get those services for free. So quite likely you cut out the associated services being presented a separate cost but not the costs themselves.

You are absolutely correct Brad. In fact, when we are doing a design/build project we actually still charge a consulting fee. We are just up front about it and include it in the bid. Other companies as you said are not so transparent.

My dad told me long ago, there is no such thing as a free lunch.

Mike