Grad Schools for Technical Direction

I am a junior at the University of Texas at Arlington curently pursuing a BFA in Desgn/Technology. I want to go to a graduate school for technical direction so I was hoping I could get some suggestions from people who have heard of or been to schools with a good Masters program in Technical Production, If this helps, my desired focus is in automation and rigging. I go to USITT National convention every year and I am going to my regional conference this winter. I am also planning on going to URTA my senior year and see what happens there.

Yale, Carnegie, Purchase, Florida State, Cal Arts. There are more.

That being said... GO WORK for a few years before you go to grad school. It will both allow you to decide if that is what you really want to do and it will get you into a better school. Finally, it will allow you to decide what kind of program you want to attend because you will know what you actually want out of a program. There are hundreds upon hundreds of MFA's out there with experience in automation and rigging who are not working. There are also hundreds of guys working in that exact field who have never walked into a classroom after they left high school.

Footer said:

Yale, Carnegie, Purchase, Florida State, Cal Arts. There are more. That being said... GO WORK for a few years before you go to grad school. .........There are hundreds upon hundreds of MFA's out there with experience in automation and rigging who are not working. There are also hundreds of guys working in that exact field who have never walked into a classroom after they left high school.

Click to expand...

Kyle,

Right On!! Well said. In answer to the OP's question, there are hundreds of really good programs out there but which one is right for you depends on ......... wait for it....... Ta-Da! ......YOU!


Now, MacScottishPlay. Which school is right?? Well, it's like a good marriage, no one partner is right for everyone, you have to be compatible, have the same goals for the relationship and work on the same budget to reach that goal. School "A" might have a larger or more nationally "Known" faculty but the "personality" and fit doesn't work. School "B" might well have an equally talented and skilled faculty, but without the rep. One school might have a wider variety of performance venues to gain a better variety of learning experiences. One might have a better interaction with other disciplines, especially in terms of engineering or computer science for example.

So the bottom line here is you have to do your homework and really find out what the nuts and bolts of the programs are. Getting out into the working world a bit will help you to meet people with information and experiences both good and bad, about various schools and programs. It will also give you some time to sort out the information and seek more, while you are not harried, hurried or rushed to make a decision. The time will also give you a chance to see if a degree is the right path for you. For example, in your geographical region, maybe you could get a job at Texas Scenic. Starting at the bottom of the ladder of course, but they do great rigging and do a lot of their own automation and control. Just a thought.

I got my masters and for me, it was the right choice. I got to work with some wonderful and very talented people, not all of whom were in the technical field. For instance I was fortunate enough to study under the late Oscar Brockett, a true giant among Theatre scholars. Among other things, he taught me that I didn't hate to write, I just hated to write about things that held absolutely no interest for me. He taught me the true value of through research on a project and just how much I could learn from the history of my profession and of the world at large and how they tied together. I got to work with Frank Silberstein, who taught technical theatre with such a passion that it was impossible not to become infected with that passion. An illness which I have yet to be cured of. Even better was the fact that I had the opportunity to become friends with these men beyond the degree,l and remain so to this day. To quote the TV commercial, "Priceless!" . To be sure, there were faculty that I was on less cordial terms with, and did not particularly like, but that is to be expected, just like the bad habit your spouse has, but you love them anyway.

Anyway, if you're still reading, I hope I didn't bore you to death and that maybe this discourse helps a little. Good luck in whatever path you choose.

I'm also now starting to turn my tune on the automation thing. It used to be designing an automation system was the pinacle of technical direction achievement. You had to combine VFD's, PLC's, encoders, limit switches, and all that crap to get the thing to work. You had to write your own software to get the things to communicate. Everyone designed their own hoists that worked for them. Theatres invested thousands upon thousands of dollars in these sytems in parts... and even more in labor. Entire graduate thesis's where written on how to build these sytems. Hell, Goddard made a mint selling their controller...

Then Creative Connors came along and pretty much blew that entire thing up. We now have a system that can be purchased for next to nothing compared to the cost of building from scratch. It works, its bullet proof, and it is easily expandable. These systems to me have moved automation to the point moving lights are now... you don't have to know how it works in total detail, you just have to know how to make it function correctly and safely. Yes, you still need to know the mechanics of how to get something to move, but the real hard part is done.

Yes, it might cost 20k to buy the gear, but in reality that is much cheaper then the man hours it takes to design one of these systems from the ground up. 20k is a budgeted expense with support, that is something a producer is willing to pay for. So, going to school for automation as the goal may not be such a good idea in this day and age.

I don't have an MFA nor do I work with anyone that does so I won't be commenting on that.

I would say there is still a raising need for people with knowledge of automation. If that knowledge is gained from classroom learning or hands on work experience is up to what helps each individual along the best. Getting gear from Creative Connors is great, but how do you turn a pile of gear into a system? What is the limiting factor for an effect's run time or load? How can either be safely increased? How will it travel how will it be unloaded? How many crew will it take?

Among other things what separates a company like Tait from All Access or Accurate is how they continue to innovate. VFD, PLCs, and motors are all common place in automation but bringing that together with an engineering background you can create things like this Video: Madonna MDNA Scenic Elements Reel

soundman said:

I don't have an MFA nor do I work with anyone that does so I won't be commenting on that.

I would say there is still a raising need for people with knowledge of automation. If that knowledge is gained from classroom learning or hands on work experience is up to what helps each individual along the best. Getting gear from Creative Connors is great, but how do you turn a pile of gear into a system? What is the limiting factor for an effect's run time or load? How can either be safely increased? How will it travel how will it be unloaded? How many crew will it take?

Among other things what separates a company like Tait from All Access or Accurate is how they continue to innovate. VFD, PLCs, and motors are all common place in automation but bringing that together with an engineering background you can create things like this Video: Madonna MDNA Scenic Elements Reel

Click to expand...

...and the guys they have designing it are mechanical engineers, not guys trained in automation from an MFA program. For input on how to build it to tour they are going to industry vets who cut their teeth hauling and setting stuff up.

Yes, it is important to know how to get gear up and running. It is important to know how to rig this gear to make it work. However, most of the time spent in designing an automation system is wiring drive cabinets, programming VFD's, and banging on PLC's to get the **** thing to go. Not to mention the time spent machining parts to build a hoist frame and all of that other stuff. This is akin to an audio guy building a mixing console or an lighting person building a moving light. Yes, it is great knowledge to have but it is pretty useless in todays world if you want to be a working technician or designer. I spent a better part of half a year in undergrad building an automation system under the guidance of our yaley TD. It was a great experience... however I don't remember half of it anymore. Added to that, since I left school the only automation I have touched was creative connors. We spent so much time building the gear and fixing the gear that it did not really allow us to use the gear on more than a show or two.

The Tate guys are in a totally different ballpark. If you want to go work for them, go learn to be a mechanical engineer. With the off the shelf stuff you still need to know loads, forces, all of that stuff but you don't need to get into the real nuts and bolts. You only spend 3 years in school, it is best not to spend two thirds of that time building your tools. Your better off perfecting the use of those tools over the 3 years.

This really just gets at my issue with the technical direction MFA in general. Most of the programs only boast about how much steel, automation, and rigging they do. Last time I started to look at the grad school thing that is all I saw. The real world does use those elements, but only when the production need and it when the production can afford it. Call me jaded, but that is what I see.

Footer said:

...and the guys they have designing it are mechanical engineers, not guys trained in automation from an MFA program. For input on how to build it to tour they are going to industry vets who cut their teeth hauling and setting stuff up.

Click to expand...

But it takes a project manager to go between the egg heads at their CAD stations, the client with their unrealistic demands and the dirty roadies that will tour or install the equipment. Can we do the gag with stock gear? If not is it a one off solution or should it be incorporated into a stock product. How much will it cost and how long will it take to make?

Footer said:

Yes, it is important to know how to get gear up and running. It is important to know how to rig this gear to make it work. However, most of the time spent in designing an automation system is wiring drive cabinets, programming VFD's, and banging on PLC's to get the **** thing to go. Not to mention the time spent machining parts to build a hoist frame and all of that other stuff. This is akin to an audio guy building a mixing console or an lighting person building a moving light. Yes, it is great knowledge to have but it is pretty useless in todays world if you want to be a working technician or designer. I spent a better part of half a year in undergrad building an automation system under the guidance of our yaley TD. It was a great experience... however I don't remember half of it anymore. Added to that, since I left school the only automation I have touched was creative connors. We spent so much time building the gear and fixing the gear that it did not really allow us to use the gear on more than a show or two.

Click to expand...

Looking at Yale's list of courses of instruction- Welding, Shop Technology, and Automation Control are the 'hands on 'classes. Compared to what is required of an MFA lighting designer it is more hands on learning. I would imagine the reasoning for that is most LD's have done thier hands on work during thier undergrad programs and while a student in the TD program might have touched on a few topics it might not have been in depth or as guided as one would expect of an MFA candidate.The bulk of the courses offered for Technical Direction focus on production planning, engineering, mechanical design and drafting.

Footer said:

This really just gets at my issue with the technical direction MFA in general. Most of the programs only boast about how much steel, automation, and rigging they do. Last time I started to look at the grad school thing that is all I saw. The real world does use those elements, but only when the production need and it when the production can afford it. Call me jaded, but that is what I see.

Click to expand...

We can agree on this, it it no different then boasting about a wide range of inventory in lighting or the newest wiz bang audio console. I would rather see students learn why and when to use each material than how to cut and weld tube stock.

In the end it's up to MacScottishPlay to figure out what he wants to be doing in five, ten or fifteen years. An MFA might not be the best way to land a gig working on a show but it might be a quicker ticket to an office job or a requirement to work for in academia.

Lets agree to disagree on if an MFA in Tech Direction is worthwhile

I'm a good example right now. I'm in my second year after undergrad. I'm teaching and TD for the school and ourchildrens theatre. I was sure I was going to do grad school. Now the only reason I think I will is to teach at the college level. Otherwise, with what I want to do, I don't think I need it. I'll pick up a welding class someday and other classes as I go, but I don't need to blow the money on an MFA right now. Plus the time to work before doing school again is good. You learn a lot and it gives you time to settle your life a bit. I've gotten married, we,ve moved 700 miles and we're making money and for the first time not scraping the cushions poor.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I'd like to add to Footer's comments about graduate degrees and automation - There are 4 of us here at Creative Conners, and none of us, including the founder and creator of most of our gear, have a graduate degree. Our Product Engineer spent a year at UNCSA, but wasn't satisfied with the program, so instead of learning about automation in the classroom, he's designing machines for the real world.

I'm not saying it's a slam-dunk - there's a lot of great stuff you can learn in a graduate program. But to reiterate MPowers point, it's all about what works with your particular situation. We were just talking about it here at the shop and Gareth made a point that if you're interested in doing scenic automation professionally, perhaps you should pursue a graduate degree in electronic engineering, mechanical engineering, or software development, which would give you a deep understanding of at least one of the required disciplines, and improve your chances of getting hired at an automation company to start your career.

BTW, Josh88 - We're just one town over in Warren, RI, so if you'd like to come visit our shop and check out our gear, just let me know at [email protected].

I had no idea you were that close! I'm only about 5 minutes from you haha. I'll have to take you up on that some time


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Be happy to talk to you about CMU and about Grad School in general. Shoot me an email at dboevers AT cmu DOT edu

See this post http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...ters-entertainment-technology.html#post269984 .

I just found this board by chance and this is my first post. I think I can speak to some specifics brought up in these posts. Grad school is what you make of it and some people need it to help broaden their understanding and others may find some different approaches.

If I was interested in pursuing a degree base on automation I would seriously look at university of North Carolina school of the arts. They have an MFA in stage automation and their guys are some of the best in the industry. I can tell you that they are heads of automation on several large shows in Vegas and touring. They are in every major shop and work on the r&d for the hottest technology in the business. Call the school and ask where their automation alumni work and I think you will be impressed.

As for the Madonna lifts. Their were two lead mechanical designers on the project, one has an undergrad degree in technical direction from Carnegie and is under 30. The other has an engineering degree. In terms of the controls two of the three guys who did the heavy thinking have tech production degrees and the third has an EE masters but also a significant theatre background. Tait has some engineers up there but I think you guys would be surprised how many people have theatre backgrounds. I promise it's possible to get to the level of designing and building the Madonna equipment without an engineering degree. There are several ways to get there and engineering school is certainly a great way to go and I'm not knocking it but guys with tech production degrees from Carnegie, UNCSA, Yale, SUNY Purchase make it to that level as well. All depends on where your interests lie and how hard you are willing to work.