Why rooster?

BillConnerFASTC

Well-Known Member
I design new theatres. We include having the vendor do an initial lighting hang. Why when the rails are spaced so any future can hang plumb easily, and the catwalk is very wide, do the rooster every unit at near 45 degrees from plum. It would have to be easier and safer to focus if plumb. I don't get it. We require an ETCP certified electrician supervise. Doesn't seem we should have to specify or draw this. Grrrrrr....
 
Do you ask the vendor why? Only they would know for certain. They might have some idea about trying to achieve some particular angle, avoid a particular obstruction, to keep the back ends of the units from impeding passage on the catwalk (even if it is very wide) .... or just a habit.

I always find yoking instruments out like that, even when necessary, makes focusing more painstaking, because what should be a simple pan across the stage becomes rotating the instrument, and so adjusting both pan and tilt to achieve the same result.
 
I'll ask this time because there is time. I think it's habit from poorly designed catwalks but these are pretty good.
 
Never heard the term "rooster". Always just heard this called "yoking out".

I also wonder why you are hanging a plot at the end of a install vs having the users of the venue do that. All that means is when I open the space up I have to now take every fixture down before I do my first hang. Unless you are also having them bench each fixture, label each fixture as owned by the theatre, and mark lens sizing... I wouldn't really bother with that. Same thing goes for cabling.

On the same subject, having just finished a major rigging project I'm kind of amazed what ETCP certified installers will do that simply does not make sense. I personally think there are a lot of installers that managed to get their certs that came up via the trades that have never actually done a show and have no clue as to what actually goes on in a theatre. I know on the rigging project one of our ETCP techs fit this mold. He had enough hours to get his cert but if you asked him to be the head rigger on a touring show he would not be able to cut it.
 
Never heard the term "rooster". Always just heard this called "yoking out".

I also wonder why you are hanging a plot at the end of a install vs having the users of the venue do that. All that means is when I open the space up I have to now take every fixture down before I do my first hang. Unless you are also having them bench each fixture, label each fixture as owned by the theatre, and mark lens sizing... I wouldn't really bother with that. Same thing goes for cabling.

On the same subject, having just finished a major rigging project I'm kind of amazed what ETCP certified installers will do that simply does not make sense. I personally think there are a lot of installers that managed to get their certs that came up via the trades that have never actually done a show and have no clue as to what actually goes on in a theatre. I know on the rigging project one of our ETCP techs fit this mold. He had enough hours to get his cert but if you asked him to be the head rigger on a touring show he would not be able to cut it.
New high school theatre, zero experience, don't even know what a light plot is, no comprehension of circuiting or even which way is up on a fixture. Add to that about 2/3 LED - getting all of them working is not easy for people with experience. And you want the portable gear left for them to hang? All one math teacher who has become the schools drama guy?

We always ask. Obviously professional and institutions with a tradition of doing production usually decline but it would be - and has been - disastrous for many high schools to just leave them. Furious superintendents that they can't be seen with the school board at the opening.
 
They develop the habit of hanging at 45 degrees from plumb..."from badly designed catwalks."

At our theatre, we have to hang at close to 50 to 60 degrees from plumb. Our catwalk must be REALLY badly designed.

When I started and 8" lekos were a factor, I detailed 30" clear between top of toe board and rail. Newer gear works pretty well with 22 inches, though some may have to be set higher in the yoke. And few people understand the issue - certainly not architects, engineers, metal contractors, etc. So your catwalks may be really bad. What is clear dimension under main rail?
 
This.
 

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I see that all the time. I think it's habit. I can't think of a functional reason, assuming no physical obstructions. It does indeed make it more difficult and a bit less safe to work with the fixtures when they're further out than necessary.

New high school theatre, zero experience, don't even know what a light plot is, no comprehension of circuiting or even which way is up on a fixture. Add to that about 2/3 LED - getting all of them working is not easy for people with experience. And you want the portable gear left for them to hang? All one math teacher who has become the schools drama guy?

We always ask. Obviously professional and institutions with a tradition of doing production usually decline but it would be - and has been - disastrous for many high schools to just leave them. Furious superintendents that they can't be seen with the school board at the opening.

I agree with this, and I have seen the good, bad, and ugly. My own high school had a fresh renovation my Freshman year, and the way they delegated the fixtures made little sense. Seems that they also touched the lamps and half the inventory died shortly thereafter.

On the flip side, it is also good to at least hang a functional plot to start with. In new construction, you can't assume that any of the techs or even the teacher will have any experience (certainly not in that space). Besides, the teacher usually has more pressing things to worry about at the beginning of a new school year. Getting them started with at least something is good business, and certainly helps when the console manufacturer comes out to do their training.
I am actually in the process of helping a relatively newly-minted TD sort out the space she just took the reigns on. The school has been there for years, but the hang she inherited seems for the most part, very random.
 
I'm going to guess in the pic you posted bill, the shutter was hitting the lower rail, so they yoked out the fixtures. It often seems like the shutters get forgotten in the "how much space does this fixture need" planning phase. Obviously just a guess, but from my experience shutters are often the reason for having to hang a fixture of axis from vertical.
 
I've wondered why the hang pipe is usually in line with the edge of the catwalk, couldn't it be bracketed out, maybe 6-8"?
 
The shutter worked fine on the quartz when hung plumb. The LED needs to be raised in the yoke.

I don't like outriggers because it forces the tech to lean out further and not be able to keep their feet flat and center of gravity over the catwalk.
 
I agree that for me, roostered is when a light is hung clamp down above a pipe, because then it sticks up like a rooster's tail, same as when a boat does it. Bill has already said only the LED's had an issue but I know my catwalk is just like that and has to be hung that way because of the bottom shutter. But then my theatre is probably the poster child of bad design. I've seen my students do that on battens above the stage out of habit from having to do it on the catwalk so its probably the same for the vendor.


ea07d_2142-408x600.jpg
 
I agree that for me, roostered is when a light is hung clamp down above a pipe, because then it sticks up like a rooster's tail

You know, I never really thought about the origin of the term until my parents bought some backyard chickens. I wonder if the lighting term rooster originates from the word roost.

Note the similarities:


(These aren't my parents' chickens)
 
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NEVER heard the term "Rooster" before this. Either Yolk-out or Yolk-up.

At the McManus Theatre (Studio at The Grand Theatre in London Ontario) we have to yolk out most fixtures (except for the first electric) simply because if not you are physically hitting the catwalk or unable to focus (depending on the fixture). Other times we have to yolk way out to hit what we are aiming for (getting obstructions out of the way) or such.
With the old Strand Century 6-by-'s they can hang straight down on the catwalk but you would have to have the fixture already pointing out instead of straight down as after you hang it straight down you can't focus as the bottom gel clip will hit the catwalk. Source4s hit against the catwalk at about 25-degrees. Nature of the beast.


I've also yolked out or up to change the angle. Or simply get the fixture higher or such.
Several theatres Ive been in require you to yolk out a little in order to simply hang the fixture or open the shutters.

Id love to just have the yolk plumb. I agree it makes it easier and quicker to focus.

Where did the term Rooster come from anyways? Just don't get it.
 
Where did the term Rooster come from anyways? Just don't get it.
Like Les said I was always told a combination of their bodies and legs on a branch are like the body and yoke of a fixture above a pipe and then the tail coming out of the light hangs out in a way similar to their tail. Maybe it was an ohio thing, lots of farms around.
24294608-Beautiful-male-rooster-tail-arrangement-Stock-Photo.jpg
The difference to me is its only roostering if its above the pipe. If the body is below, I'd say its yoked out, if the body crosses that middle line so that it has to be above the pipe, its roostered. But most commonly when its in a position like Les's picture.
 
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I've called it roostering for a long time. Not sure where I heard it - from stagehands for sure.
 

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