ImageCue

Anyone play around with a little device called an "ImageCue"? It's a Raspberry Pi enabled with DMX in/thru that allows you to get the Pi to spit out images and videos on cue from a lighting console.

It's a neat use of the Pi (there's another thread around here looking for means to use such a thing in the theatre), but I'm mixed. It's expensive for one. It's a heckuva lot cheaper to just get QLab running and control it with MSC or whatever and it seems a bit glitchy when loading movies. The Pi doesn't have a whole lot in the way of GPU power. I'd like to hear if anyone has messed around with this device, I've got a client who brought one in for her musical. Came with art to display that was prelicensed and they even will build you a basic show for an Express console, which makes me think they're marketing towards the HS/Community theatre crowd.

After spending about 8~ hours working I don't think I can recommend this beyond a science project. It's unfortunately priced, which I'm positive reflects the time invested in creating the software and requisite hardware to make it work, but I'm noticing that the GPU of the Pi seems to be a bit underpowered for what it's worth. Not to mention your video output is limited to HDMI (or whatever you can convert that to). They supplied a passive adapter to DVI, but I'm suspecting that there is an issue in signal degradation since the image projected is pretty dim for a 12,000 lumen projector.

For the price, you could have a used Mac or Mac mini running QLab, be able to edit your cues (as it stands with the ImageCue you have to change the contents of a flash drive and then edit each cue's dimmer channels to select a file and folder respectively). If you wanted to change out an image on this you'd need to unplug the flash drive, plug it into a computer, and then load your image there. If it worked easier than QLab, I'd say it'd be a good fit for people looking for the "show in the box" crowd, and maybe there is an audience for that, but I can't justify it over QLab in our own circumstance. Anyway, it made for an interesting weekend trying to get this to interface with our lighting controller and a lot of tweaking to adjust the transitions to look good. I'd be interested to hear from anyone with experience with one, I definitely dig the raspberry Pi, but I still don't think there's much for them in the theatre.

I've played with one some. Not very impressed. It feels like a good idea (easy video control from the light console) but the implementation isn't ideal. You've got a pi with linux running already, why not support syncing files from network folders? Why no acn support? etc, etc.

danTt said:

why not support syncing files from network folders?

Click to expand...

That was a big one for me. They preloaded the flash drive with all these videos and stills with fades and transitions, etc. Each file was assigned a folder and number (e.g. act I was folder 1, Act II was folder 2). My client didn't want to use all the files so it was a matter of getting the pi to load the image on the projector, figuring out which number the media she wanted actually was, then saving. There's no way to change what's on the flash drive (so far as I know) except for unplugging it and using a computer. At that point, I can't justify it over a PC or Mac based media controller. Granted, a Mac is expensive, but if you've already got one, the QLab licenses are cheaper than the ImageCue.

It seemed to me that the ImageCue was intended to be a poor man's media server for the lighting professional. So many of the controls seemed to be ideal if you wanted to busk on a light board, which would eventually be easier than trying to set up something similar on Qlab.

As the developer and manufacturer of ImageCue I would like to address the comments made by “StrativariusBone” and “danTt”. Many of the comments are erroneous and I would like to set the record straight.
1) Yes, we do use a Raspberry Pi 2 along with another microprocessor in ImageCue. The Pi’s GPU is quite powerful if used without the standard Linux kernel and drivers. The second processor (on an additional printed circuit board inside ImageCue) is absolutely necessary to achieve the performance for video playback without latency.
2) The development of ImageCue was not a “science project” as expressed. I am a professional embedded systems developer listed on over 60 US patents in the entertainment industry. Development included writing a custom Linux kernel, custom GPU interface drivers, and methods to handle up to nine 1920x1080 image/video layers simultaneously.
3) The video output signal is HDMI which is a DIGITAL video signal. A DVI cable uses the same DIGITAL video signal (you do not need an active adapter). In addition, a DVI cable can have an analog RGB component. ImageCue does not support analog video (VGA). We have found that most HDMI to VGA adapters do not work well enough for us to recommend they ever be used. Your comment about signal degradation implies that you were using an analog adapter/interface with ImageCue. If the HDMI digital signal had “degraded” you would not have had a picture, period. Because you state that the projected image was “dim” leads me to believe you were either converting HDMI to VGA or you had the dimmer channel (or grand master) at a DMX512 value of less than 255 (100%).
4) You claim that ImageCue’s playback of the video content was “glitchy” when loading. My first reaction was to question the quality of your content, but reading on, I am pretty sure that you were using content from Broadway Media Distribution (BMD). Their video content quality is top notch and performs flawlessly on ImageCue. I propose that you did not properly set-up the fixture profile for ImageCue on your control console. ImageCue is set up like a moving light fixture profile. It is very important that the parameter values “snap” from cue to cue – not crossfade. If the DMX values were “fading” from one value through other values that would explain how you may think that startup had glitches. ImageCue is so fast it would have actually been beginning to load each of the intermediary files. Also, if you had the folder and file parameters set to percentage values rather than “raw” you would be jumping from file 0 to file 3 (1% of 255) and then to file 5 (2% of 255) meaning you wouldn’t have access to all of the content. You most definitely would not have been able to properly set the control channel (10) values to control video looping/last frame freezing/devamp. Did you call tech support at BMD or ETC to help you correctly set up the profile?
5) You mention that we prepare show files for Express consoles. We do not. This is an ETC "legacy" console that cannot easily support modern digital lighting devices and media servers. BMD only provides show files for the EOS family of ETC consoles. BMD also supplies a complete cue sheet listing for their shows that clearly indicate each channel’s value to be programmed in the console for each cue. If you had to “tweak” transitions I can guarantee that you were not following the cue sheets or your fixture profile was wrong. When the cues are programmed and executed correctly, the BMD content will play back seamlessly using ImageCue. To skip over a programmed scene, you would merely “GO TO” the desired cue. The cue sheet clearly identifies the image folder and file values for each scene.
6) With regards to the comments about networking, we use more than the Raspberry Pi to accomplish what we do with ImageCue. I can assure you that the Pi CPU does not have the capacity to handle an Ethernet or USB-DMX data stream AND play back video with close to zero latency. Early versions of ImageCue did have an Ethernet port separate from the Raspberry Pi to support ArtNet and sACN. However, we found that most non-professional users could not set up and configure a lighting network without considerable tech assistance. With just DMX512 we find that most customers can get ImageCue up and working right out of the box if they follow our Quick Start Guide.
In summary, ImageCue is designed for the theatrical lighting industry. It is currently used without issues by Mike Ledesma on Santana and Michelle Sarrat on Grimes. Recently, ON Event Services of Atlanta used 16 ImageCues on a multi-screen show in Washington DC. ImageCue documentation is readily available on our website http://imagecue.lighting.

Bill,

Thank you for stopping by the Booth and offering some explanation of your device. I hope that you continue to do so as when I watched some of your videos, I could see this device being helpful to many of our members.

Bill-

First off, I want to say I mean no disrespect to you or your product and really appreciate your insight. I was merely sharing my experience with the device which was limited to a 3 day period through which I frantically tried to implement the client's vision without any prior knowledge or experience with your product. The only reason I posted about it here was because I quite honestly had trouble finding people who had any sort of experience with it all. The science project comment might have been taken a bit out of context. Given the Pi's heritage as an experimental device I was trying to imply that it is frequently employed in random areas where a computer might prove useful, I'm sorry if it offended as that was not my intent.

I received the HDMI to DVI adapter from the client which came as a part of a kit that was supplied with the artwork. I don't know who that company was, which was part of our confusion in finding information about the product. We also spent a decent amount of time on the phone with tech support, but she had to keep checking with another tech to help us through troubleshooting the device. It was a "let's get this working ASAP, the client's on a deadline" rush to get the device to output and interface with our lighting controller. She also supplied her own projector, so I couldn't verify if it was an output issue from the ImageCue vs. an issue with the projector itself. Assuming the supplied DVI connector was approved by you all, I think we can safely blame the projector for that one.

We use LightFactory which is very capable at handling intelligent lights and I had to write a profile for this device. I did run into the problem with the "snap attributes" as you said and learned that LF doesn't have a way to program that into the fixture profile which is unfortunate. What I ended up doing was creating a channel group for each "scene" I needed and then applying that into the appropriate cues. The channel groups allow for DMX entry as well as snap to at both full or zero. Once I got that working I was able to build the looks like the client wanted for the most part.

Where I ran into trouble was in how the media was arranged on the flash drive versus what the client's expectations were. The sample cue list they supplied had several looks for each scene, including fades and lighting transitions. I thought I saw something about the ETC Express, but I might've been mistaken. Again, working on a deadline with unfamiliar tech, just trying to get it running for the show. I didn't have time to figure out how to incorporate all the proper cues into each scene and they didn't all apply to how she wanted to set up the show, so I ended up cherry-picking scenes using her notes and the cue sheet.

With your added information that seems to be where the trouble began and continued. I tried using the fade option (can't recall which fixture channel controls that) with some success, but I figured out that it had issues with some of the videos which also included their own fades. What ended up happening is the video would lag behind the lights. We didn't have time to trouble shoot that issue, but I suspect it was either in when LF was "snapping" the ImageCue's channels or an issue with how the fade on the ImageCue was interacting with some of the videos with fades built in.

My frustration there was that we typically use QLab for media control, and with a GUI-based controller it's easier to see what the video is doing by itself, being able to rule out the lighting controller as a cause of the trouble. I couldn't remove the lighting controller from the troubleshooting chain because it was the only way to interface with the ImageCue. With the way this is setup I would've had to removed the flash drive, taken it down stairs to my computer, load the videos, etc. Granted, if the client followed the documentation (or shared it with me initially) it would have been a different result altogether. I suspect if she supplied with the cue sheet first and I built the show around that it woudl've work out. But, you have to understand, I knew nothing of this product and had no references beyond your website to go on. Assuming the device was struggling to render the video was not a stretch given that information at the time. I didn't have time to spend on tech support at that point.

If I were given all the tools from the beginning with just a bit more than 3-4 hours of lead time before the first rehearsal, and we were using the media as the company intended I think it would have been quite a different story. The client downloaded the media she wanted to use from what she said was a dropbox account linked to her. She then put it on her own USB in the root folder, which obviously didn't work. I found the supplied USB which she didn't know about and went from there. We did have an issue with the USB drive where it would not load anything other than the default image library, but their tech support helped us fix it by resending the files.

Reading your notes, this seems like a lot of misinformation from the client who had an idea of what she wanted for the show, but didn't read the documentation (nor supply me with any of it). I'm still in the QLab camp at this point, simply because that's how we've set up our rig and it works well for the typical shows we run. But I will follow this product with interest now. Thank you for sharing your insight and again, I apologize if I caused any offense.

StradivariusBone,

Thank you for the clarifications about your experiences. BMD and ImageCue are very concerned about your less than desirable experiences with our products. Unfortunately for all of us, it appears that you were not provided with all of the necessary information to ensure a quality show. BMD works very diligently to gather technical information from its clients in order to package their content. One of the questions they ask is whether or not the client has experience with Qlab. BMD has a great deal of experience packaging their content for Qlab. The content package for Qlab is quite different than for ImageCue. In your particular instance, given your Qlab knowledge, it would have been better for you to have been given Qlab ready content.

It is my understanding that your client had the ImageCue and content package for a period prior to tech week and was in discussion with BMD directly. I can absolutely sympathize that it was thrust upon you at the very last minute. Most of us that have been in the industry for a decent amount of time know the stress that comes with last minute technical issues. I think I speak for most reputable manufacturers in the industry when I recommend that you contact our tech services for support. If you are in a "show critical" situation we are here to help - 24/7.

I hope that if you are given an opportunity to use ImageCue in the future you will contact us to help you build a fixture profile and cue structure that will control ImageCue properly. We are happy to work with console manufacturers to provide an ImageCue profile in their fixture libraries. ImageCue and BMD take great pride in our products and want our customers to have better shows and a great experience. We regret that this wasn't the case for you in this instance.

It just makes so much more sense now, honestly. I wish I had more time to work with BMD's tech support as the individuals I contacted were very friendly and helpful. Once I got to the point where we were at least limping along, there just wasn't the time unfortunately. I do want to add for what it's worth that the quality of the artwork was very good, I definitely will investigate their products with relation to QLab for some of our in-house productions in the future.

My client did mention to me bits and pieces of what she had received prior to the rental. Mostly things like "video box" and "should work with the lights...somehow" which going on the limited info I had at the time was terrifying. I tried to google-fu based on that information but came up short unfortunately. I definitely will take advantage of your assistance in the future as she is a regular client with whom we do enjoy working, but just not very tech-saavy. I will relate to her that a QLab package is also an option.

I did notice that you had fixture profiles on some of the other consoles and I was able to cobble one together for LightFactory, but didn't have time to really nail down the issue of the snap attributes. I contacted LF tech support and they confirmed the issue and as far as the info I got the only workaround there was the one I came up with in using the channel groups to create the different looks. The nice thing about LightFactory is they tend to add in features as their customers find a use for them, so I wouldn't be surprised if this gets attention in a later release.

I'm also really stoked that you all are using a Pi in such a unique way. I am very green with the device, but recently built a "RetroPie" out of a Pi2 my dad gave us so my son and I can play old video games. Not a brilliant use of the device, but I figured it was a good place to start learning how it can be setup for different tasks. Most of my experience with command line knowledge comes from the DOS/Windows side of the world, so the Linux/Unix based stuff is a bit foreign to me. I definitely want to explore using it further, so it's very cool to see one in the wild being used so successfully!

Lastly, thanks again for sharing your insight. We pride ourselves on providing good customer service to our clients at the expense of our sanity on occasion, so it's always a great thing to find other companies in the industry who feel the same way and are willing to work together to accomplish the goal of having a good show.