Casting gobo onto black scrim without revealing actors behind?

I am working on a show which I intend to create an effect of revealing an actor from behind a black scrim, but at the same time I wanted to cast a gobo effect onto the same scrim before the reveal. However, the gobo artwork is that of a statue figure, so the light source for this gobo would most likely need to be hitting the scrim dead on. But that would mean the actor behind the scrim might be partially lit somehow. Is there a way that could be minimised?

I am thinking of adding black masking drapes just directly behind the scrim, and that the black masking drapes goes up just before the light for the gobo goes off and the spot for the actor comes up, but I'm not confident about how it would look like aesthetically.

Can color help? An example that is perhaps absurd but orange gobo and actor in blue costume?

Might be easier to have actor in a black robe that the simply drop to floor or cast off on cue.

AyCee said:

I am working on a show which I intend to create an effect of revealing an actor from behind a black scrim, but at the same time I wanted to cast a gobo effect onto the same scrim before the reveal. However, the gobo artwork is that of a statue figure, so the light source for this gobo would most likely need to be hitting the scrim dead on. But that would mean the actor behind the scrim might be partially lit somehow. Is there a way that could be minimised?

I am thinking of adding black masking drapes just directly behind the scrim, and that the black masking drapes goes up just before the light for the gobo goes off and the spot for the actor comes up, but I'm not confident about how it would look like aesthetically.

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@AyCee You've definitely set yourself a challenge. I've questions and suggestions.
What else is behind the scrim / behind and surrounding your actor in the sense of what else is there you need to keep masked and protected from exposure?
Instead of a flown masking drape, what if you had a black traveller partially open OR two legs immediately behind the black scrim creating a tall narrow opening. 2' 6" to a metre up stage you'd need additional black masking.
This would allow your actor to standby totally out of sightlines one side or the other of your desired location.
The actual transition would involve fading (or snapping) out the front projected gobo, the actor quickly stepping in to his mark and positioning / posing himself prior to his special illuminating.
What I'm suggesting would require momentary distraction for the patrons so no one notices your actor stepping into position.
This would not lend itself to a smooth seamless reveal but would be more jarring.
I guess it's a question of the aesthetic you're looking for coupled with how you'd transition fade-wise from your gobo to your special, if you could live with being momentarily in total black long enough for your actor to take two steps into position or not. You could fade to black, hold briefly, then fade up OR you could snap to black, pause just long enough for the filament in the gobo's source to cool then snap up the special. If the quick snap look is more to your liking, having your gobo projected from an LED source would speed things up by avoiding the lag necessitated by waiting for the gobo source's filament to fully extinguish.
There's a few thoughts and considerations for you to kick around, again, depending upon the aesthetic you're going for.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

Assuming you have blacks behind the scrim. I would take Bill's idea further and just completely cover the actor with a black. Drop it to the floor as part of the reveal.

If the actor is in the beam of the gobo the actor will be visible.

Another possibility would be to compute a distorted image of the statue such that you could have the gobo at an acute angle to the scrim. IE the distortion would cancel because of the angle. That would be expensive ( and tricky)

A third possibility would be to do a video projection at an acute angle, and distort the source image with software until it looks normal. This approach would also let you apply a gradient over the image to counteract the difference in tensity the acute angle would cause. You will need a bright projector to make this work.

Let us know what you end up doing

I've never tried it but maybe worth trying rear projection on scrim, allow source to be seen, but over actor. Never know.

Hi everyone, thanks for the inputs!

To answer the various questions above, I only have a platform running across the stage from wing to wing of which the actor will be standing on during the reveal and then walking downstage of it after the scrim flies out. Behind the platform is a painted backdrop which I am thinking of masking it out during this scene by maybe flying in a black masking drape.

The actor is going to wear costume that is white base with black designs, and I don't foresee covering the actor in black drape will work, because she will be wearing a big headgear, so the black drape might be in the way and the reveal might end up even messier, I feel.

Anyway after thinking of the suggestions being brought up here, I think I'd have the light source for the gobo coming from behind the platform instead and shining upwards. And perhaps I can have travellers with an opening for the actor to hide by the side before the reveal and step into the light during the lighting state change. The only thing now for me would be to keystone my gobo (fortunately I have not made it yet!) to make sure the projected image stay as proportional as possible (I am not considering projection with projector because this show I am working on is going to be staged in a foreign country and it is part of a theatre festival, so there is really no time for much technical adjustments)

AyCee said:

Hi everyone, thanks for the inputs!

To answer the various questions above, I only have a platform running across the stage from wing to wing of which the actor will be standing on during the reveal and then walking downstage of it after the scrim flies out. Behind the platform is a painted backdrop which I am thinking of masking it out during this scene by maybe flying in a black masking drape.

The actor is going to wear costume that is white base with black designs, and I don't foresee covering the actor in black drape will work, because she will be wearing a big headgear, so the black drape might be in the way and the reveal might end up even messier, I feel.

Anyway after thinking of the suggestions being brought up here, I think I'd have the light source for the gobo coming from behind the platform instead and shining upwards. And perhaps I can have travellers with an opening for the actor to hide by the side before the reveal and step into the light during the lighting state change. The only thing now for me would be to keystone my gobo (fortunately I have not made it yet!) to make sure the projected image stay as proportional as possible (I am not considering projection with projector because this show I am working on is going to be staged in a foreign country and it is part of a theatre festival, so there is really no time for much technical adjustments)

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@AyCee You may want to test the effect of your gobo being angled upwards from behind your platform before investing too much time and money in intentionally geometrically distorting your gobo in an attempt to maintain its proper proportions when reaching your scrim from such an oblique angle. I'm suggesting you project any gobo you already have on hand obliquely up onto your scrim and learn two things:
1; How visible is the image from the audience's perspective with whatever reflection occurs being bounced up and away from your audience while depending upon your black scrim to magically create an image that's visible to your audience.
2; How much corrective distortion you're going to need to apply to your gobo.
On the plus side: Your positioning of your gobo source up stage and out of sight lines behind your platform will guarantee none of your audience will be distracted by seeing the actual source of your gobo.
Questions and concerns:
a; Will you be carrying your scrim with you as you may achieve radically different results / degrees of success if you're depending upon using whatever scrims you encounter in various venues along the way?
b; Will you be carrying your own gobo source fixture with you as opposed to being dependent upon using whatever luminaires you discover on hand in the various venues you may encounter?
c; If you're carrying your own gobo source, ensure its operating voltage is compatible with the voltage in your host venue BEFORE you transport it and connect it.
With all best wishes for your success.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

AyCee said:

I am working on a show which I intend to create an effect of revealing an actor from behind a black scrim, but at the same time I wanted to cast a gobo effect onto the same scrim before the reveal. However, the gobo artwork is that of a statue figure, so the light source for this gobo would most likely need to be hitting the scrim dead on. But that would mean the actor behind the scrim might be partially lit somehow. Is there a way that could be minimised?

I am thinking of adding black masking drapes just directly behind the scrim, and that the black masking drapes goes up just before the light for the gobo goes off and the spot for the actor comes up, but I'm not confident about how it would look like aesthetically.

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@AyCee How did you eventually proceed and were you satisfied with the results you achieved?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.