Tex
Active Member
Looking for some inexpensive adapters to use an Audio Technica (hirose) element with a Shure (TA4F) body pack. Any ideas?
Inexpensive adapters
- Thread starterTex
- Start date
TL;DR warning, old guy story.
In the 1990s, I fabricated a few short (6") adapters to use mic elements wired for cW Audio Technica (Hirose), on Shure bodypacks. However, I wouldn't consider this approach inexpensive, with the current availability of decent budget mic elements. (This allowed me to use my sound company's smaller hair line mics with the theatre's Shure house wireless systems rather than fixing and using the big fat house lapel mic elements. I augmented house wireless with our racks of AT systems).
I agree with FMEng above that the wiring varies. I used AT and Countryman mics, and found tech support from both companies to be invaluable in wiring their mics for different brands and models of bodypacks. Even if the general pinouts were the same for a given bodypack vender, there were sometimes different loading resistor/cap values needed in the connectors for different bodypack models. Generally, though, most were interchangeable within a bodypack brand, if I was careful about trimming the levels.
I was comfortable re-terminating or replacing the AT and TA4F connectors, as we did Youth Musical Theatre, with high wear and tear, coupled with limited budgets, so fabricating adapters was similar.
If I recall, the idea for the adaptor came from a male (bodypack) Hirose to XLR adapter cable/box that AT tech support made for me, so I could test repaired mic elements directly into a console in the shop w/o needing the wireless rig. (AT now sells a Hirose to XLR hard adaptor to run their cW terminated wireless elements as phantom powered wired mics, which I now use as that test adapter). That adapter showed me the cable-mounted Male Hirose.
Also if I recall, the male (bodypack) side of the Hirose accepted the same threaded backshell as the female (element) side, and they latched together. So, cable and Hirose backshell from a failed mic, plus replacement male bodyback Hirose, and a TA4F gave me what I needed. The 6" length provided some service loop, to loop the cable around in the sweat-resistant mic pouch. I think the adapters were originally wired for specific AT elements, and I had the wiring info for both bodypack input types from AT, so I was able to fab the adapter cables. I think we later used the same adaptors with Countryman elements wired for cW Hirose AT, with a couple of versions of Shure bodypacks, but had to be careful about overload.
Of course all the models have changed since then.
In hindsight, we bent over backwards to maximize the number of wireless to the clients, even though we lost wireless revenue by fixing and using house gear, even if that meant providing adapters and additional elements. These days, I would never fix, frequency coordinate, nor provide antenna systems for a pile of unloved house wireless, but I'm older and grumpier (or maybe wiser) now.
-larry-
In the 1990s, I fabricated a few short (6") adapters to use mic elements wired for cW Audio Technica (Hirose), on Shure bodypacks. However, I wouldn't consider this approach inexpensive, with the current availability of decent budget mic elements. (This allowed me to use my sound company's smaller hair line mics with the theatre's Shure house wireless systems rather than fixing and using the big fat house lapel mic elements. I augmented house wireless with our racks of AT systems).
I agree with FMEng above that the wiring varies. I used AT and Countryman mics, and found tech support from both companies to be invaluable in wiring their mics for different brands and models of bodypacks. Even if the general pinouts were the same for a given bodypack vender, there were sometimes different loading resistor/cap values needed in the connectors for different bodypack models. Generally, though, most were interchangeable within a bodypack brand, if I was careful about trimming the levels.
I was comfortable re-terminating or replacing the AT and TA4F connectors, as we did Youth Musical Theatre, with high wear and tear, coupled with limited budgets, so fabricating adapters was similar.
If I recall, the idea for the adaptor came from a male (bodypack) Hirose to XLR adapter cable/box that AT tech support made for me, so I could test repaired mic elements directly into a console in the shop w/o needing the wireless rig. (AT now sells a Hirose to XLR hard adaptor to run their cW terminated wireless elements as phantom powered wired mics, which I now use as that test adapter). That adapter showed me the cable-mounted Male Hirose.
Also if I recall, the male (bodypack) side of the Hirose accepted the same threaded backshell as the female (element) side, and they latched together. So, cable and Hirose backshell from a failed mic, plus replacement male bodyback Hirose, and a TA4F gave me what I needed. The 6" length provided some service loop, to loop the cable around in the sweat-resistant mic pouch. I think the adapters were originally wired for specific AT elements, and I had the wiring info for both bodypack input types from AT, so I was able to fab the adapter cables. I think we later used the same adaptors with Countryman elements wired for cW Hirose AT, with a couple of versions of Shure bodypacks, but had to be careful about overload.
Of course all the models have changed since then.
In hindsight, we bent over backwards to maximize the number of wireless to the clients, even though we lost wireless revenue by fixing and using house gear, even if that meant providing adapters and additional elements. These days, I would never fix, frequency coordinate, nor provide antenna systems for a pile of unloved house wireless, but I'm older and grumpier (or maybe wiser) now.
-larry-
Tex
Active Member
I suspected as much. I'm at a high school. The district was kind enough to replace our 600 band AT mics with new Shures, but they bought the WL185 lapel mics. Much harder to hide on an actor. I was hoping to use the very small AT elements that we bought a year ago. Guess I'll have a go at soldering on some TA4F connectors. I'll need my magnifying light!
Thanks for the help!
Thanks for the help!
themuzicman
Well-Known Member
As you surmised, you'll be better off chopping the Hirose connectors off and starting fresh with a TA4F. Rean (a Neutrik company) makes my favorite TA4F connectors, 1/4 the price of Switchcraft and twice as durable. You'll be saving yourself one possible point of failure if you start with fresh connectors, and soldering on TA4F connectors is fairly easy process as far as it all goes. I'd give a ring to AT to see if they can tell you the resistor value (if there is one) that you'll need to put between Pin 2 and Pin 3 in the TA4F, else start with none there and if it clips throw a 10kOhm 1% and work your way down and A/B an AT pack against a Shure pack until they sound roughly the same and you aren't clipping the Shure pack.
If you really wanted to make a Hirose to TA4F adapter, it probably wouldn't be that hard. I pulled the specs for the AT899 lav and the AT Unipak stuff -- the Unipak's output 9VDC bias, but the AT899 terminated to Hirose is a special "low power module" make of the mic, which probably means there is a resistor between pin 4 and pin 3 in the Hirose connector. Assuming their Shure variant on the AT899 has the same special "low power module" element, it probably means the capsule wants to see 5VDC so all you'd have to do is make a straight Hirose-TA4F adapter.
Hirose Pin 1 --- TA4F Pin 1 (GROUND)
Hirose Pin 2 --- N/C
Hirose Pin 3 -- TA4F Pin 3 (AUDIO)
Hirose Pin 4 -- TA4F Pin 2 (BIAS)
And you may have to jumper TA4F Pin 3 to Pin 2, but it depends on your body pack.
If you really wanted to make a Hirose to TA4F adapter, it probably wouldn't be that hard. I pulled the specs for the AT899 lav and the AT Unipak stuff -- the Unipak's output 9VDC bias, but the AT899 terminated to Hirose is a special "low power module" make of the mic, which probably means there is a resistor between pin 4 and pin 3 in the Hirose connector. Assuming their Shure variant on the AT899 has the same special "low power module" element, it probably means the capsule wants to see 5VDC so all you'd have to do is make a straight Hirose-TA4F adapter.
Hirose Pin 1 --- TA4F Pin 1 (GROUND)
Hirose Pin 2 --- N/C
Hirose Pin 3 -- TA4F Pin 3 (AUDIO)
Hirose Pin 4 -- TA4F Pin 2 (BIAS)
And you may have to jumper TA4F Pin 3 to Pin 2, but it depends on your body pack.
Aaron Becker
Well-Known Member
I'd probably be looking for a rental or long-term purchase plan to not use the 185s, personally. Buy them with your departments money (even if it means 1-2 a show) and keep them under lock and key for *only* your shows. We did that years ago, when a district stopped paying for our personal toys, we just started using our own funds to invest in things we wanted, and locking it up for us. Sucks for the students when they're helping with those non-theatre shows but really was the only choice.
