Current Ethernet cable specified ?

SteveB

Well-Known Member
Doing up a design and proposal for an existing space.

We will be having them add RJ45 jacks around the space, some for lighting, some general utility, some audio.

We throw out the term “Cat 5” a lot, but I know there’s better/improved stuff, I’ve just no idea - Cat 6 ?, Cat 6E ?. What’s currently being installed, it’ll likely be in conduit in a n accessible plenum wall area.

Thanks in advance
 
6e is not a standard, and I would question any supplier that offered it. It was kind of a thing for a while as an upgrade to cat 6, with some people just choosing to name it that thinking that it would get the "e" like on cat 5 cables. The actual standard is cat 6A. Cat 7 exists, and cat 8 is in the works, but not really necessary unless you plan on installing a data center in there. At the absolute minimum I would install cat 6. Cat 5e could be fine for patch cables if your just hooking up a computer to the internet. But anything on an internal network should be at least cat 6. It will give you 10 Gigabits at lengths of 50 meters or less, and could drop off to 1 Gigabit beyond that. So if most of your runs will fall under that it will probably be fine. 6A gives you 10 Gigabits for the full 100 meters.
 
5E is being sunsetted, especially for new infrastructure that'll be used for the next 25 years.

For lighting you should be fine with unshielded CAT6. It's the go-to for most everything these days.

6A is preferred for higher bandwidth applications, and usually shielded if you're doing video. It'll give you more distance when you start doing 4K video over IP or HDBT.

My average design is to scatter UTP CAT6 around the room labeled "Audio Network" that connect back to switches for Dante, "Lighting Network" for consoles/nodes/etc connected together via switches, and then use STP CAT6A (usually West Penn 4246AF) for jacks labeled "AV TIE" that go back to shielded patch bays. The AV Tie connections end up being a great catch-all for wherever you need an extra network connection, or where you're doing something like HDBT/SDVoE/etc.
 
My mistake. 6A, not 6E. IT parts of the project drive this more than lighting control, and the contractor just uses the same. I'm confident 5 is sufficient for lighting.
 
I'd investigate dropping lots of general purpose 6a or 7 that terminates in a patchbay with switches on the various networks mounted in the same rack. The additional flexibility of having any port be used for anything as needed is quite handy. Being able to drop a lighting console or node down left one day or a video run over HDBT there the next or audio there the next is quite handy.
 
I'd investigate dropping lots of general purpose 6a or 7 that terminates in a patchbay with switches on the various networks mounted in the same rack. The additional flexibility of having any port be used for anything as needed is quite handy. Being able to drop a lighting console or node down left one day or a video run over HDBT there the next or audio there the next is quite handy.
Quite handy but also not without extra work. We studied and discussed this at length for a major professional theatre and after considering the pros and cons, basically designed and had constructed separate networks: lighting, sound, video, and the theatre basic data network. (Might add rigging, cue lights, and intercom.) The cost was very little extra and the ability to have various crews working unfettered significant. Maybe if you can make a case you are not having to pay your people to stand around and sort out who has to have what it makes some sense, but buying time for a small one time cost is often a bargain - especially if you consider the delays and time if one thing is mis-patched and everything grinds to a halt. And IIRC the connectors are not the same, at least if you use ethercon connectors. Now, you can use cat5/5e ethercon plugs and receptacles with cat6 or 6a (I don't know about 7) cable, but pretty sure if you go all 6A or 7 that you'll find a need for adapters for a lot of existing lighting gear.
 
I'd investigate dropping lots of general purpose 6a or 7 that terminates in a patchbay with switches on the various networks mounted in the same rack. The additional flexibility of having any port be used for anything as needed is quite handy. Being able to drop a lighting console or node down left one day or a video run over HDBT there the next or audio there the next is quite handy.

This is one of those methods that's so flexible it usually ends up giving the user enough rope to hang themselves with. If everything is general purpose, then as Bill pointed out there's a high risk that something will be patched wrong. Beyond that, it's just more time every show because it adds steps to getting the systems online.

The general standard I see, beyond my own designs, is that ports are reserved around the theater for Lighting Net and Audio Net that go back to switches, leaving general purpose UTP and/or STP jacks going back to patch bays with a set number of ports on those patch bays going back to each of the network switches. This way when you need to get a console or a stage box on the network, you know when you plug in that your "Audio Net 34" spigot is always going to be work right out of the box. This also puts the network switches in the back of the rack leaving only the stuff the user has to see on the front of the rack. This makes for more stable systems and makes it much harder for a user to unknowingly take their whole system offline. This also makes it easy to standardize that anything on a network is CAT6 (very little point for 6A in the foreseeable future), and that anything on UTP/STP tie is 6A, which is more likely to be used for bandwidths in excess of 1 Gig.

I would caution that more isn't always better. CAT7 has very few practical uses today. I've only encountered it once. Even making the jump from CAT6 to CAT6A can be pretty expensive but 6A at least has practical applications for point-to-point video. If you're really concerned about flexibility over time, you're better off pulling SM and MM fiber around your venue, which can be used for just about anything. It'll be cheaper overall and easier to install. The primary benefit to copper is that it's natively useable without media converters -- but how much money do you want to drop to avoid converters?
 
Thanks for the replies.

This is a smalish black box, roughly 40-50x65. I’m likely to recommend 3 networks be installed, lighting, audio and video/other.

Budget dependent, one Mid-Atlantic rack, one UPS, 3 - 24 Port switches, 3 separate patch bays. All cabling 6A.
 
Thanks for the replies.

This is a smalish black box, roughly 40-50x65. I’m likely to recommend 3 networks be installed, lighting, audio and video/other.

Budget dependent, one Mid-Atlantic rack, one UPS, 3 - 24 Port switches, 3 separate patch bays. All cabling 6A.
CAT6A receptacles too?
Shielded or unshielded CAT6A?
 
Last edited:
CAT6A receptacles too?
Shielded or unshielded CAT6A?

Yes 6A Jacks, and shielded cable as the runs for different systems are likely to be in the same conduit, thus there will potentially be some additional cross-talk rejection, so 6A F/UTP if i'm reading this correctly.
 
Don't worry about cross-talk for CATx cable. You can pull it all through the same pipe UTP and STP together. Only time you really need to be considered with bundling is if you're driving a lot of PoE, because then you have to worry about melting cables.
 
Just beware that to the best of my knowledge, no lighting fixtures yet have CAT6/6A receptacles.

Mike brings up another important piece: POE, which I think you really want for at least the lighting network, to power at least nodes.
 
Just beware that to the best of my knowledge, no lighting fixtures yet have CAT6/6A receptacles.

The 6A jacks are intermateable with the 5E ethercon plugs, so they're actually a good choice where universal compatibility is preferred. If you should stumble upon a device with 6 plugs, you can always twist off the shell of the plug and use the RJ45 on its own, which is fairly common practice to do.

For whatever the reason, the 6A ethercon's are also about $10/pop cheaper than the 6 connectors -- though I'm sure the traditional jacks at the patch panels are more expensive when you jump to 6A.

Neutrik only makes the 6A connectors as shielded, so labeling becomes important at the panel locations if you mix and match shielded and unshielded but use 6A connectors across the board.

Helpful diagram c/o Neutrik...

upload_2018-2-19_12-4-46.png
 
Am I correct that the 6A ethercon plugs do not mate with most of the receptacles in current light gear? So whatever is in the wall, you still use 5E for lighting patch cords? Without shells where mating with 6, but with shells for 6A?

This is why even with 6 or 6A wire, I stick with 5E receptacles, plugs, and cables for lighting. The gear will wear out before the 5E capabilities become insufficient for the data. Makes me want to return to 0-10 VDC control.
 
An ethercon 6A plug will mate with 5E and vise versa. It's up to the user to make sure they use the appropriate level of cabling for their application.

For low-bandwidth distribution to nodes, gateways, etc -- there's no reason to pay for more than 5E patch cords unless you're trying to standardize your inventory across lighting/AV. From an infrastructure standpoint though, there's nothing wrong with 6/6A in the walls and using 5E for the cables out to the devices. That allows the user to upgrade their portable cabling if/when necessary.

I would say most devices on the market that I've run across have 5E jacks, which 5E ethercon, 6A ethercon, and standard RJ45's can plug into. From the looks of it Neutrik doesn't even make PCB mount varieties of their CAT6/6A connectors, and PCB mount is what you'll typically find in manufactured electronics.

Sometimes I'll reserve the CAT6 connector for PoE touchpanels where they're next to a bunch of 6A connectors. Forces the user to plug the touchpanel into the right spigot.

A quick survey Googling around:

Standard RJ45
5E ethercon:
  • Hog 4
  • GMA2
  • ETC Response Gateways
  • ETC Net3 products
  • Pathway switches (probably shielded since they're network switches)
Couldn't find a photo or drawing showing what's on the back of the RJ45-version of Colorsource fixtures, but I suspect it's shielded 5E ethercon. Shielded because it's DMX instead of ethernet.
 
Just beware that to the best of my knowledge, no lighting fixtures yet have CAT6/6A receptacles.

Mike brings up another important piece: POE, which I think you really want for at least the lighting network, to power at least nodes.

Switches are a Dell unit I cannot recall - it's an ETC recommended unit with 24 ports and PoE.

Yes, Cat5/6 on units is not an issue with this space. As part of our adjacent new facility - you know, the one scheduled to open in 2014, the consultants specified 18 ETC 2 port portable gateways, plus 10 ETC 1 port gateways. We are also getting a boatload (as supplemental purchase) of Lustre II's (134), Desire D60's (52) another 24 Color Source Pars (added to the 16 in house), plus 30 or so Elation units (LED profiles and washes). The result is a desire to get the Black Box space updated to accommodate some of this gear. When I last did a control cable layout for the other spaces considering the new LED gear, we had Gateways to spare, but that the huge investment in LED can justify the recommendation to update the control cable infrastructure, well actually, to install one for this 3rd space. Ion is getting updated as well and we will recommend either a new CEM3 Sensor rack with 24 PowerThru, or renovate the existing CEM classing to CEM3.

Then we are thinking about a Lyntec motorized breaker panel plus an ETC Echo, simple control setup, to replace a legacy 60 year old 2 pole relay controlled breaker panel that powers room worklights. Nothing fancy needed on this.
 
Switches are a Dell unit I cannot recall - it's an ETC recommended unit with 24 ports and PoE.

Assuming you're talking about the 3524p, which was the ETC recommended switch for a long time, I'd look at something a bit newer now... ETC has moved on to the Cisco SG300 series, mostly the -28pp. You should definitely get something gigabit at this point, for futureproofing if nothing else.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back