Need to upgrade lighting console - High School

Hi smart people!

I have $2000-2200 Cdn earmarked for upgrading our current lighting controller. It still works, but it probably won't soon. I have to spend this money by May 15th or it gets clawed back by the Ontario gov. And I have to spend it on lighting console(s).

I currently have a Colortran 24 that uses compact flash. Many times this board has cleared its brains and we've lost shows. It's an oldie, but I like its simplicity and ease of patching with a few basic effects possible liked chases and timed crossfades.

I'm using DMX 5-pin, I have 60 dimmers, the 12 front lights are hard-patched 1-1 (channels 1-12) and 13-60 are on the grid. I don't have any moving heads and don't plan on adding any, and if I'm going to be using LEDs, it's only a few of them, and they will only be on/off, so no dimming. Mostly Par64, ParCans, Scoops, and a few Lekos.

I really need to get kids up on this quickly (which is why I'm reeeeallly leery of software and I prefer manual faders) , and the funding stipulates that I have to buy from a reputable source (can be online, and not a random guy off kijiji).

I've been flip-flopping all over the place. If there is a great board out there that does what I need it to do but is way cheaper, I would buy two of them (as we have our own TV studio that is also running the same console and also having the same clearing issues)

Its big purpose for usage would be musical theatre productions, and typically I need anywhere from 80-100 programmable cues, with ease of fitting cues in between if I need to add. I don't use a lot of effects.

Please help me (especially if you have some leads from Canadian sources)!

Thanks! ~Melissa
 
Usedlighting.com

For the budget you won’t get much besides a used console. Definitely not 2.

You won’t really be upgrading more so as move laterally(sp?). I would vote an expression 3. They are solid consoles.
 
Near that price range, My first thought is the ETC ColorSource 20 or 40 The 20 is under $2000 USD and the 40 is around $2700 USD
 
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Id like to know what @Stevens R. Miller would have to say. He seems to have been working in a number of venues that seem similar.

I wish the Mantrix was still available. You might look at a Strand 200 plus in the 24/48 version. Might be a rare occassion I suggest Leprecon. 2 scene presets with memory.

I had the feeling used was not an option.
 
Hi Melissa, I'll throw in my 2 cents...

Used consoles are a huge gamble. Unless you know the history of the exact board you're buying it's quite possible that you'll end up with something just as buggy and unreliable as what you currently have, if not worse. I'd consider buying used as an absolute last resort unless there is someone near you who is selling and can vouche for the console's integrity.

Honestly, an ETC Element would be a nice fit for you, though you won't find one new for the budget you have, and we get back to buying used. With the Element 2 being released it's possible that you might find an Element being sold in good condition, but I'd still consider it a last resort.

ETC's ColorSource is a good choice, but be cautious of how the board allocates channels. It's very easy to run out of room on the board with even a modest lighting rig. There are ways to trick the board into controlling more channels then intended, but that's hardly something you'd want to plan on with a new purchase.

I'd take a look at the offerings from Jands and Pathway. I believe a flavor of the Cognito2 can be had new for right around your budget through a good dealer. While it's not my personal favorite board to run theater gigs with, I know of many community theaters who use one and love it. You can also go the Leviton route. They have a number of options available in your price range, but my experience with them (Innovator) has been quite poor.

Then you have software. I understand your concern and need for physical faders. A number of the bigger-name makers offer wings to use with their software that really help to open things up. This includes ChamSys, Martin (now Elation's) M-PC, and ETC. You can use the Educator discount to get ETC's Nomad up and running for $250, though I believe their programming wings are beyond your budget. A call to your local dealer can at least help sort out the street prices in your area, and I'd at least try to get a quote for a Cognito2 first and go from there.

Hope this helps!
 
Hi Im not terribly far away in London, well at least compared to most of the members here (Ron and a few others are closer).

Honestly I'd go with ETC Nomad, buy a computer, keep it off the network (don't even let IT know you have it, because if not they'll want to control it, and force updates on it at bad times, or auto shutdown at bad times), and then you can buy an X-Keys or Cherry keyboard to make it easier to use. No faders, but you can upgrade with a programming wing and or fader module later when budget allows.

The biggest and best tech/arts highschool here in London uses ETC Nomad on a laptop with no extras, and it does them fine. They have LEDS, conventionals, and scrollers, and typically rent moving lights and such for their big yearly production.

I work with a number of highschools in four different schoolboards, so am used to how things work here in Ontario if you want to give a shout later if you have questions/issues.

Cheers,
Steve.
 
I have one thought about "kids these days", they may surprise you and be able to get up to speed quicker than you can, they speak the lingo.

EDIT: As far as an external interface device, the Elation (formerly Martin) M series has not one but two very affordable interfaces, the M-touch and the M-play. It also seems to me that Elation has lower prices than Martin did. There is also the coolness factor to both these devices. It is also important that the laptop (or desktop) is dedicated to lighting control only, locked down as far as updates, and kept off the internet.
 
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Id like to know what @Stevens R. Miller would have to say. He seems to have been working in a number of venues that seem similar.

I'm being asked to contribute advice instead of asking for it myself? This is a Control Booth first for me!

I agree with Dionysus: ETC Nomad on a computer is an excellent choice for your situation. I know you said you want to avoid software, but I think it is ideal for a reason specific to a school: your students can download the free version and practice at home. As far as I can tell, the free version does everything the paid version does, except communicate with the DMX controller. Now this has benefits beyond just allowing your students to work at home. The free version can import and export actual show files. This means that they can go beyond mere practice by editing show files offline. On your budget, I believe you'll be able to buy the two systems you want (no way could you do that with anything worth having if you bought dedicated consoles).

From an educational point of view, the Nomad product also has the advantage of operating almost identically with ETC's Ion and Element hardware. Those are pretty popular products, which your students are likely to encounter in college and professionally, if they go on to do more theater tech after high school. Software also has the advantage of relatively frequent upgrades (although ETC does publish firmware upgrades to their consoles fairly often too). Looking at it from a more individual point of view, the Nomad option is low enough in cost that, again, if your students continue in this field, they can potentially buy their own systems. For those of us who are itinerant, that can be a big plus, as constantly learning new equipment as I work shows in different school after different school gets old and wastes time. (I admit I have not bought a Nomad system of my own, but that's because I am broke and decided to buy a very low-cost USB-to-DMX adapter that I do not recommend for educational or professional work, and I am a programmer so I wrote my own software that meets my personal wishes, but would probably leave the CB pros here dumbfounded and/or aghast by some of its design choices.)

As for the ColorSource 20 and 40, I actually have a lot of experience with those (as the one "permanent" theater I have been working in for the last year has a CS40). Let me speak to that option as well, if I may:

Don't buy either of these.

First off, the CS20 cannot control more than 40 instruments. You have 60, so that's a deal breaker on its own. The CS40 can control 80, which means you have some limited growth potential. However, one of the reasons the CS has those low instrument limits is that it does a pretty good job of making use of something you've explicitly said you don't have, which is parameters other than intensity. My theater has about 50 lights in it, almost all of which are multi-color LEDs. Our CS40 makes it pretty easy for me to set a specific color for each one, cross-fading from one color to the next when I want to. We also have a couple of instruments that have other parameters, such as pan and tilt, and beam angle. To be blunt, the CS40 does not handle those parameters well at all, though it does try. You wouldn't need any of that. To make matters worse, the CS has no "blind" editing mode (that is, you can only edit a cue by actually setting the lights with it, changing their settings, and recording the changed version). So, in my view, if you bought a CS40, you'd be paying for a lot of things you would never use, and would not be getting some features you probably do want. (I could complain a lot longer, about things like the tiny touch-screen that has way too much stuff packed onto it, and so forth, but you wanted quick advice, not a product review, so suffice to say I wouldn't buy this console for any application whatsoever; if I had the money, I'd buy something else, every time.)

So, in short, I think ETC's Nomad is a great choice for you to consider.

Hope that helps and good luck!
 
What he said. The student/educator version with the Gadget2 is I believe $250 US. You do need a computer of course, but just looking at Dell and not know what the particular requirements are for Nomad, you can get into a laptop under $300. Seems like you can get two Nomad with Gadget2s and two laptops within your budget, baring any regulations or strings attached to the funds. Government regs can defy logic.
 
For what it's worth, I'm definitely team Nomad as well, just trying to offer up a console option. Sorry to hear that Stevens isn't a fan of the cs, but it works quite well for the black box I use it in.

I also want to agree with John D
I have one thought about "kids these days", they may surprise you and be able to get up to speed quicker than you can, they speak the lingo.

They have a way easier time working with computers than older folks. Also, they tend to find computers less intimidating than lighting consoles. Just make sure you keep it offline and don't have any unnecessary programs on it.
 
The black box is 36 dimmers and 8 or so LED's. We use the CS40 so I forgot that fixture count may be an issue for OP.

@Stevens R. Miller I know there is a very responsive EOS facebook group where people get solutions almost immediately, not sure about CS though.
 
+1 on the Nomad/gadget educator combo. It gets you into a software interface your students may see out in the world, native control for LEDs and movers, and the ability to integrate with the rest of the ETC system of consoles if and when you get more budget to work with. The OP mentioned the importance of faders- grab a 2x10 or 2x20 fader wing to go with it (you could go used to save a bit of money there) and as long as you can dredge up a laptop you're good to go. Adding an X-keys or Cherry keyboard is a nice addition, but I've actually found that I and my students get used to the keystrokes on a normal keyboard pretty quickly (except for a few that I can't easily remember). You don't get encoders to manipulate movement/color/gobo/etc (but then again not much else in your price range is going to give you that) but there are a bunch of resources for diy arduino-based hardware to get similar functionality, for example- https://shop.etcconnect.com/lighthack-box-1/. Your students can load the software on their personal computers and program their own shows at home, and even follow along with you when you program or run shows if you get everything networked together. I think it's a great educational tool, in addition to being a pretty decent console option, and allows for cross-disciplinary collaboration when it comes to building out the console (get your computer science and engineering students in on building the lighthack box and get them to join your stagecraft crew).
 
@Dionysus and @Stevens R. Miller are dead on about both Nomad and CS options. With the ETC deal you might even afford a USB fader wing to get the best of both types. I'd skip the Xkeys and go for a big touch screen monitor on a minimal computer. The school probably has some spare ones that would do well. Don't discount the extensive training and support resources for the ETC Eos family.
 
@Dionysus and @Stevens R. Miller are dead on about both Nomad and CS options. With the ETC deal you might even afford a USB fader wing to get the best of both types. I'd skip the Xkeys and go for a big touch screen monitor on a minimal computer. The school probably has some spare ones that would do well. Don't discount the extensive training and support resources for the ETC Eos family.

+1 on a touch screen a great addition to Nomad.
 
Regarding faders: I haven't done this myself, but others report being able to use a Korg nanoKONTROL2 (as well as other MIDI USB controllers) with Nomad.
 
With a big enough touch screen you can have the dedicated keyboard and several sets of faders on screen with the other displays. I have yet to test for the ideal resolution/dimension sets, but screens keep getting cheaper.
 
I'd be wary of using a fader-less solution at a school.
The vast majority of the time, it's a show with either little in the way of tech runs, or everything changes at the last minute, and now large parts of an event must be busked
 
The Nomad would be a great solution. My #1 recommendation.
#2 recommendation would be an ETC SmartFade. You would be able to get 2. They're not brilliant or intuitive but with manual in hand the first few times, fairly easy to set up and will do the basics. 96 channels of control on two pages of 48 faders. You can program playback or run live. Lack of a monitor is pretty frustrating. The board has several short comings, but with what you have to work with, if the Nomad situation isn't a possibility, I'd look into the SmartFade.
 

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