Career Advice Getting started as a roadie? (FAQ follow-up)

You can also gain experience by getting a job at a mega church. Seriously, they get a lot of the coolest toys. You don't even have to go to the church or believe what is preached (though you do need to be respectful). I got pretty good doing that which helped me in my regular corporate gigs. Now I don't touch audio at all, unless it is embedded in video and I am passing the signal off to the audio guys.
 
You can also gain experience by getting a job at a mega church. Seriously, they get a lot of the coolest toys. You don't even have to go to the church or believe what is preached (though you do need to be respectful). I got pretty good doing that which helped me in my regular corporate gigs. Now I don't touch audio at all, unless it is embedded in video and I am passing the signal off to the audio guys.
@ruinexplorer You could probably learn a lot about flying people in some of those churches as well. In my large, soft-seater roadhouse days we had a couple of LARGE area churches rent our main stage for its fly tower and present their own productions of 'JC Superstar'. I'll never forget one production which came in for several successive days. At one point the mid-stage black flew out to reveal Christ on a ~20' tall wooden cross tastefully lit amidst a combination of oil and dry ice fog and then just as the audience had resumed breathing the cross slowly toppled over backwards under complete control with its bottom hinged securely in place leaving the body of Christ miraculously invisibly suspended in air moving his head and fingers just enough for folks to realize he was still alive. I could tell you how they accomplished all of this but then I suppose one or both of us would have to be shot and probably painfully.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
You could probably learn a lot about flying people in some of those churches as well.

I would be somewhat leary of that. There were a couple of churches that added flying to a production, designed by people using climbing gear, that ended in fatal accidents. I had to fight my church on some things that they rigged using hardware not rated for overhead use.
 
I would be somewhat leary of that. There were a couple of churches that added flying to a production, designed by people using climbing gear, that ended in fatal accidents. I had to fight my church on some things that they rigged using hardware not rated for overhead use.
@ruinexplorer I reiterate: "You could probably learn a lot about flying people in some of those churches as well." Sometimes you learn how to do something, sometimes you learn how NOT to do something. Both can be lessons worth learning.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
LA is a tough market. There is plenty of work, but the cost of living is some of the highest in the country. So, the hourly starting rate looks good, but not when you compare it to rents, gas, and food.
So, be prepared if you move out to LA that you are going to have to work really hard.
Now, to quote Randy Newman, "I Love LA!"
If the choice is "Quit school to start coiling cable, or finish school", FINISH SCHOOL! Experience is good. Education is good. Education and Experience will win every time.
Education does not have to mean a 4 year bachelors degree that you end up with $60K+ in debt and little real world experience. LA City College has a well respected Theatre Arts Academy.
https://www.lacitycollege.edu/Academic-Departments/Theater-Arts-Theatre-Academy/Department-Home
There are a number of community colleges in the LA area with entertainment fields of study.
Along time ago, I had a discussion about electrical theory with a co-worker. I started by saying, "Picture a Sine wave..." My co-worker said, "I didn't like physics so I don't know really know about waves." I was dumbfounded. That co-worker never raised above the level of hanging and focusing lights.
If you want to be mixing front of house, there is a lot of science to understand. There is a lot of computer networking that you need to understand. If you are freelance, you need to understand about accounting, business practices, tax law.
You don't need this information to coil cable, but if you want to do more than coil cable, you need to apply yourself. And, when you show up for the call at least 15 minutes early, wearing clean black clothes, without a T-shirt with obscenities printed on it, and you are there to push boxes and coil cable...DO THE JOB!
Good luck,
John
P.S. I now officially feel like an "Olde Pharte"!
 
LA is a tough market. There is plenty of work, but the cost of living is some of the highest in the country. So, the hourly starting rate looks good, but not when you compare it to rents, gas, and food.
So, be prepared if you move out to LA that you are going to have to work really hard.
Now, to quote Randy Newman, "I Love LA!"
If the choice is "Quit school to start coiling cable, or finish school", FINISH SCHOOL! Experience is good. Education is good. Education and Experience will win every time.
Education does not have to mean a 4 year bachelors degree that you end up with $60K+ in debt and little real world experience. LA City College has a well respected Theatre Arts Academy.
https://www.lacitycollege.edu/Academic-Departments/Theater-Arts-Theatre-Academy/Department-Home
There are a number of community colleges in the LA area with entertainment fields of study.
Along time ago, I had a discussion about electrical theory with a co-worker. I started by saying, "Picture a Sine wave..." My co-worker said, "I didn't like physics so I don't know really know about waves." I was dumbfounded. That co-worker never raised above the level of hanging and focusing lights.
If you want to be mixing front of house, there is a lot of science to understand. There is a lot of computer networking that you need to understand. If you are freelance, you need to understand about accounting, business practices, tax law.
You don't need this information to coil cable, but if you want to do more than coil cable, you need to apply yourself. And, when you show up for the call at least 15 minutes early, wearing clean black clothes, without a T-shirt with obscenities printed on it, and you are there to push boxes and coil cable...DO THE JOB!
Good luck,
John
P.S. I now officially feel like an "Olde Pharte"!
Thanks a ton, John! I had actually looked at LACC's program, so it's great to hear first hand that it's a solid program. I will most likely be looking at furthering my education while working (e.g., coiling cable, maybe with the opportunity to start learning some of the audio stuff if I can be so lucky?). That being said, do you have any suggestions for where I should be looking for those entry-level jobs in L.A.?

Thanks again!
 
If you are a musician already and know your way around music then you are already halfway there. Go get a job in a dirtball club. Start mixing bar bands. Get your name out there. Learn the ropes that way. When you mix 4-5 hrs a night 7 days a week for a hundred bucks you learn a lot. Then go get a job with a dirtball sound company and do the same. You'll get a lot of experience quick. After that, get yourself a job with a dirtball band and tour with them. You'll learn a lot there too seeing the world a bit. After you have experienced all the crap that is out there you'll have the connections to jump to a larger band and better venues. You don't get to become an FOH engineer via the audio shops. The FOH engineer is attached to the band, not the shop. So, you need to get into the band scene... not the shop scene. Totally different worlds.

With that too... learn your way around backline too. Learn to tune and string guitars. Learn how to fix amps. Learn how to build and re-skin a drum kit. Learn how to tech out a keyboard rig. Learn how to advance. Learn how the business side of touring works.

LA is one of the big hot spots for where bands come up. Your band is out there. You just have to find them.
 
If you are a musician already and know your way around music then you are already halfway there. Go get a job in a dirtball club. Start mixing bar bands. Get your name out there. Learn the ropes that way. When you mix 4-5 hrs a night 7 days a week for a hundred bucks you learn a lot. Then go get a job with a dirtball sound company and do the same. You'll get a lot of experience quick. After that, get yourself a job with a dirtball band and tour with them. You'll learn a lot there too seeing the world a bit. After you have experienced all the crap that is out there you'll have the connections to jump to a larger band and better venues. You don't get to become an FOH engineer via the audio shops. The FOH engineer is attached to the band, not the shop. So, you need to get into the band scene... not the shop scene. Totally different worlds.

With that too... learn your way around backline too. Learn to tune and string guitars. Learn how to fix amps. Learn how to build and re-skin a drum kit. Learn how to tech out a keyboard rig. Learn how to advance. Learn how the business side of touring works.

LA is one of the big hot spots for where bands come up. Your band is out there. You just have to find them.
This is really helpful, thanks a lot!
 
I have been a "roadie" for 24 years, with some of the largest tours and biggest names in the business. I would say 90% of the FOH engineers started out with the sound company in the shop, then as a system tech/stage tech, and worked their way up. When an opportunity arrived, they were in place to take it. The other 10% started with a band that made it big later. If touring is what you want to do on a major level, move to where one of the big sound companies are, and start working in the shop. Clair Brothers, 8th Day, and Sound Image are some of the regular "big tour" companies.

Good luck.
 
I have been a "roadie" for 24 years, with some of the largest tours and biggest names in the business. I would say 90% of the FOH engineers started out with the sound company in the shop, then as a system tech/stage tech, and worked their way up. When an opportunity arrived, they were in place to take it. The other 10% started with a band that made it big later. If touring is what you want to do on a major level, move to where one of the big sound companies are, and start working in the shop. Clair Brothers, 8th Day, and Sound Image are some of the regular "big tour" companies.

Good luck.
Thanks a ton!! I will heed your advice. :)
 
@soundman @ThisIsMyUserName Am I detecting more than a trace of understatement?? That's somewhat akin to saying George Burns was a pretty fair comedian or SynAudCon has taught a few passable audio classes. @TimMc Care to comment on Dave Rat?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

Dave Rat is a colorful fellow who's made a good name for himself and his company. While I have occasional technical disagreements with him I consider Dave a tremendous and generous resource for the concert audio and EDM providers. Anyone not familiar with him should do a Youtube search and sit back...

Both @RonaldBeal and @Footer give good (and not necessarily opposite) advice. For *most* BEs (Band Engineers), they got their gig because they made an impression on the artist at the right time. Back in the 1980s that might have meant being at the right party or being the SE (System Engineer) who saved the show the night their BE got sick or missed the bus call.

If one wants to be successful BE these days, one needs several things, IMHO: listening experience that goes beyond 1 or 2 genres; people skills; basic recording skills; mixing chops; system engineering and measurement (Smaart, SIMM, Systune) skills; and the ability to work like a carney for the occasional passive-aggressive psychopaths.
 
Dave Rat is a colorful fellow who's made a good name for himself and his company. While I have occasional technical disagreements with him I consider Dave a tremendous and generous resource for the concert audio and EDM providers. Anyone not familiar with him should do a Youtube search and sit back...

Both @RonaldBeal and @Footer give good (and not necessarily opposite) advice. For *most* BEs (Band Engineers), they got their gig because they made an impression on the artist at the right time. Back in the 1980s that might have meant being at the right party or being the SE (System Engineer) who saved the show the night their BE got sick or missed the bus call.

If one wants to be successful BE these days, one needs several things, IMHO: listening experience that goes beyond 1 or 2 genres; people skills; basic recording skills; mixing chops; system engineering and measurement (Smaart, SIMM, Systune) skills; and the ability to work like a carney for the occasional passive-aggressive psychopaths.
@TimMc Thank you Sir for the open frankness of your astute observations! I've long respected Dave, his company and his line of custom products. The man has more than earned his place in the industry.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
L.A. is a big place! What is commonly referred to L.A. is the Los Angeles area. It encompasses many cities, parts of at least two counties, and is spread across an area equal to Detroit to Flint.
Where you are going to be starting out living will change the advice for where to look for work.
What is your timeline for moving?
Take care,
John
 
L.A. is a big place! What is commonly referred to L.A. is the Los Angeles area. It encompasses many cities, parts of at least two counties, and is spread across an area equal to Detroit to Flint.
Where you are going to be starting out living will change the advice for where to look for work.
What is your timeline for moving?
Take care,
John
Hey John! Thanks for getting back to me. I'm looking at 2-3 months for relocation. As for the specific area of L.A., I'm leaning pretty heavily towards Hollywood at the point, due to proximity to music scene, breadth of commuting options, and price. (I also know someone there that I can stay with temporarily.) That said, I'm largely willing to go where the work is, even if it means finding somewhere else to stay. I'd greatly appreciate any suggestions!
 

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