Chocolate waterfall?

You've guessed it - we're doing Willy Wonka and I'd prefer a 'real' waterfall. Wondering if anyone has attempted this? Couple of questions - and ideas for turning water a realistic chocolate colour, and do you think it would have any detrimental effect on a pump?

I've seen a video on youtube of a school production that seemed to run clear water over a brown background which was very effective - again wondering if anyone's tried this and/or has any idea what the background might be.

Any other thoughts and ideas gratefully received! Thanks!

I would experiment with clear water over brown background first. If that doesn't work just start collecting what comes out of your painter's sink. Get enough of it and it'll be some color of brown most likely.....

I totally saw this and thought brown paint water!!!

I would think if chocolate can go through a pump why can't watered down paint. For that chocolaty smooth look maybe look for some high gloss to throw in there too.

Amiers said:

I totally saw this and thought brown paint water!!!

I would think if chocolate can go through a pump why can't watered down paint. For that chocolaty smooth look maybe look for some high gloss to throw in there too.

Click to expand...

Those are usually special pumps that are designed to handle chocolate. A normal fountain pump would probably get clogged up with large particles in "paint water." I would try the brown background and then maybe try making some brown food coloring.

From reading up on it they have heating elements to it to keep the chocolate a certain temperature in order to keep it flowing and more liquidy.

Here's a list of different type of pumps.

http://www.pumpscout.com/articles-scout-guide/pump-types-guide-aid100.html

You could build a screw pump, which would be able to handle denser liquids.

No matter what, make sure to take precautions for having liquid on stage. First, you will find that the amount needed to be seen will add considerable weight. Second, any electrics on the floor need GFCI protection. Liquid spreads quickly. Third, splash can make a very slippery surface for actors and technicians.

sure lets have wet paint splashing around during the show. what could go wrong? [/sarcasm]

I can't talk myself into thinking paint water is a good idea. Maybe try a cornstarch/water solution or some other mixture that will wash out of clothes. Pure speculation here, but if you go with a screw auger to lift the liquid, the cornstarch's non newtonian properties may make it easier to lift (meaning it will clump up with the friction of the auger and be lifted easier) then at the top it'll relax and dribble over the edge beautifully, maybe even hitting the bottom without much splashing. Make sure you update this thread if you ever get it built. I'm interested in the final product.

I mean you could literally build a real chocolate fountain. That would be amazing.

Clean up each night would be a blast.

I'm thinking about caramel color but I'm not sure how to make it milky.

Our high school did Willy Wonka last year on an extremely low budget, so no chocolate fountain. We simulated a chocolate river by having 2 stage hands ripple a long swath of brown silk charmeuse across the stage. When it was time for Augustus to get sucked into the pipe he disappeared under the fabric and crawled off stage. The actors reacted as if the action were taking place off stage and we completed the effect with recorded sound effects and some live foley from the booth. With the quick transition from outside the factory to the smelting room to the boat scene I would be concerned about getting a water feature on and off quickly without spillage.

Vegetable oil with food coloring.

Many years ago I did a rain effect on stage. Since clear water doesn't light and read well we added white pigment to the water which worked wonderfully. This way you get the color but not all the other particulates. I'm not sure how water with brown pigment would read but I can confirm that the pump had no issues with it.

A litte update: we've experimented with all sorts of concoctions. There were a lot of combinations that looked good but had problems with smell, coagulating when left still (ie between performances) and separating out over time. The best result we found for look and texture is water and cornflower heater together to thicken, and allowed to cool, then coloured with brown food colouring. The texture is great, it doesn't 'set' when not flowing, no smell, the colour is good and it plays nicely with the pump.

We're now rigging a small test set up which will run for two hours a day and then sit for 22 hours to mimic what will happen over the performance week, to see if it's as good at the end of the week as at the beginning!

Next job is to start thinking about what materials to use to build a conduit for the 'river' - thinking of a wooden structure lined with pool liner or perhaps a metal tray made to fit.

The waterfall will have about a three meter drop - I'm a little concerned about the noise of splashing as the water hits the pool of water at the bottom - wondering what I can do to keep it as quiet as possible!

Any ideas or advice gratefully received!

ChrisClarke said:

A litte update: we've experimented with all sorts of concoctions. There were a lot of combinations that looked good but had problems with smell, coagulating when left still (ie between performances) and separating out over time. The best result we found for look and texture is water and cornflower heater together to thicken, and allowed to cool, then coloured with brown food colouring. The texture is great, it doesn't 'set' when not flowing, no smell, the colour is good and it plays nicely with the pump.

We're now rigging a small test set up which will run for two hours a day and then sit for 22 hours to mimic what will happen over the performance week, to see if it's as good at the end of the week as at the beginning!

Next job is to start thinking about what materials to use to build a conduit for the 'river' - thinking of a wooden structure lined with pool liner or perhaps a metal tray made to fit.

The waterfall will have about a three meter drop - I'm a little concerned about the noise of splashing as the water hits the pool of water at the bottom - wondering what I can do to keep it as quiet as possible!

Any ideas or advice gratefully received!

Click to expand...

EDPM over a good solid substrate is a great way to go. be sure to use good techniques for splices at seams. I prefer the roll-on, ultra toxic contact cement stuff rather than Butyl tape for seams. Wear a Respirator with Organic filters and keep fresh air flowing that harblankment is NASTY!

Do you actually need it to flow in the river? If you had a fake river that was set slightly higher than your floor, you could have the waterfall going into a hidden recovery pond that looks like it is feeding the river. That might also help mitigate some splashing and keep it quieter.

ChrisClarke said:

A litte update: we've experimented with all sorts of concoctions. There were a lot of combinations that looked good but had problems with smell, coagulating when left still (ie between performances) and separating out over time. The best result we found for look and texture is water and cornflower heater together to thicken, and allowed to cool, then coloured with brown food colouring. The texture is great, it doesn't 'set' when not flowing, no smell, the colour is good and it plays nicely with the pump.

We're now rigging a small test set up which will run for two hours a day and then sit for 22 hours to mimic what will happen over the performance week, to see if it's as good at the end of the week as at the beginning!

Next job is to start thinking about what materials to use to build a conduit for the 'river' - thinking of a wooden structure lined with pool liner or perhaps a metal tray made to fit.

The waterfall will have about a three meter drop - I'm a little concerned about the noise of splashing as the water hits the pool of water at the bottom - wondering what I can do to keep it as quiet as possible!

Any ideas or advice gratefully received!

Click to expand...

for your river check out products used to waterproof showers and bases called ROCI or roll on crack isolation Mapie or schluter systems. You can build a wood trough and coat with roll on water proof.

I did a pool for Meta, however we were not allowed to put a pool on stage. So covered the stage with silver milar within the 1 ft deep section. In the center, a 4 ft tall x 4 ft square fountain. I used thin plastic (food wrap) on outside to look like water and Christmas light globe things that look like water reflection behind it. No real water.
The secret inside the fountian. The top was pitched to the center (like shower drain) waterproofed, then silver milar. A pvc 4" toilet flang sealed and nolted, with 12" down pipe provided drainage in to the 1/2 barrel size tub below. Then a 300gpm pond pump, 1 1/25 pvc pipe with valve going up through the toilet flange to create a fountain that just bubbled up. course pond filter material laid in barrel to stop splashing and noise.. It gave the illusion that real water was flowing over the edge.

In your case put translucient brown gel or mylar over the silver, using computer type fans to move air creating ripples. Add LED lights. Same brown on water fall. Run 1 1/4 pipe up then horizontal. Cap end and drill holes on top to create wider look for river.
Theater is illusions not reality.

bobgaggle said:

sure lets have wet paint splashing around during the show. what could go wrong? [/sarcasm]

I can't talk myself into thinking paint water is a good idea. Maybe try a cornstarch/water solution or some other mixture that will wash out of clothes. Pure speculation here, but if you go with a screw auger to lift the liquid, the cornstarch's non newtonian properties may make it easier to lift (meaning it will clump up with the friction of the auger and be lifted easier) then at the top it'll relax and dribble over the edge beautifully, maybe even hitting the bottom without much splashing. Make sure you update this thread if you ever get it built. I'm interested in the final product.

Click to expand...

Personally I'm worrying most about the Augustus Gloop actor here, since if you've gone to the trouble of a real river then there will be the strong temptation to drop the actor into the river, and paint has a lot of toxic chemicals in it. Even splashing means the actor gets dosed nearly every night with toxic chemicals.

Yes, actors are annoying sometimes but if we harm any of our actors we might not be allowed to do tech theatre anymore. Also, actors make tech theatre possible.

As for water on stage, sure you can do it, but if you use visual effects and scene design everyone will think it is much cooler than actual colored water. Plus its way easier to have more scenes in the play that don't involve a chocolate waterfall.

All done and dusted now! In the end we used water thickened with cornstarch, coloured with food colouring. The texture and colour was so good it was virtually indistinguishable from real molten chocolate. We also pumped scent through a diffuser - managed to find a chocolate fudge variety that smelled just like real chocolate. Fell from a height of about 1.8m into a small pond. Splashing was minimal because of the viscosity but so out of sight perspex positioned at an angle to catch the falling water before it hit the pond which reduced sound and splash to almost nothing. Pump was a bit of a challenge but we ended up using an effluent pump. Needed some help to prime before each show but worked wonderfully. Was a little noisy but we made a housing lined with insulation which solved that. No issues with heat build up inside it's 'box' either.

The river had a small 'retaining wall' either side, this wall hid from audience view a gap between the wall and river. So when Augustus fell over the wall, he actually fell into a recess in the stage floor, landing on a piece of sack cloth. He then just lay flat and was pulled out by crew with a rope from the wings.

Making Augustus travel vertically up a pipe was too difficult, so at the end of a river was a vertical pipe that fed into a horizontal pipe and then after 4m attached to another vertical pipe going upwards.

While the cast walked along the river pretending to try and pull Augustus out he ran around backstage to be loaded onto a trolley inside the horizontal pipe. Once it was established through dialogue that Augustus has been sucked into the pipe he was pulled along the horizontal pipe pausing for effect and two portholes so the audience had a good view.

Bit of a cumbersome description I'm sorry but it worked fantastically well and the audience loved the scene!

Thanks as always for all the helpful suggestions! C.

ChrisClarke, did your Augustus come back out for the Oompa Loompa 1 song? If I'm reading this correctly, he WOULD be covered in "chocolate" when he came out. How did he get clean for the ending scene, and how did you maintain his costume for all the shows? I'm costume designing for Willy Wonka and am trying to figure out how to best simulate this. We don't have access to the running water backstage to get him cleaned up and have 12 shows to do!

apethegrape said:

ChrisClarke, did your Augustus come back out for the Oompa Loompa 1 song? If I'm reading this correctly, he WOULD be covered in "chocolate" when he came out. How did he get clean for the ending scene, and how did you maintain his costume for all the shows? I'm costume designing for Willy Wonka and am trying to figure out how to best simulate this. We don't have access to the running water backstage to get him cleaned up and have 12 shows to do!

Click to expand...

You are misunderstanding! Augustus fell into a gap between the wall and the river (the gap was hidden from the audience so they thought he was falling into the river). So he never came into contact with the river at all, so remained clean. We concealed a pot of nutella (chocolate sauce) in the gap so when it looked like he was leaning over the wall to drink from the river he smeared some on his face which looked great. That was easy to wipe off afterwards.

He didn't join the Oompa's for their first song - worked fine with them on their own. Hope that helps - and good luck with the show!