Cyc backdrop lights- New

Some of the Eos series consoles have Net 2 Configuration Editor in the shell, OR it can be downloaded from ETC and added. CE can than configure Net 2 devices.

One thing folks have a hard time wrapping their heads around is the idea that with 1024 addresses, you can use them on any number of universes. You can set up the 2 ports on the Element as Universe 1 & 2, than a 2 port node as 3 & 4. As long as your total patched address count doesn’t exceed 1024, the desk doesn’t care how you distribute those addresses. We sometimes set up a node/gateway as Universe 8, with our 6 CF72 strips in a mode that uses a 54 address footprint (I think it’s 2 adjacent cells grouped), so need 320 addresses, which is within a single universe output on a Gateway. If I set up the CF’s in the most discrete usage, it would be 108 addresses per strip and would give me individual cell control. That than means 640 addresses and requires another port, as well as 2nd cable, etc....

.I have had as many as 17 Gateways in use, but only use 3200 or so addresses of the 6144 available on that Ion. I distribute as it makes sense to various positions, including 8 - 1 port Gateway/Nodes on 8 different box booms, all Universe 3. I may only use a total of 300 some odd addresses total for the gear on those positions.
 
We rented 6 ETC CS with Cyc Adapter recently for a run of Christmas Carol, our Cyc is 52x26 (although the visible area is closer to 42x20). Compared to our Phillips 3-Cells, the CS are miles ahead.

As others have mentioned, the color does not quite reach the bottom of the cyc, although it didn't with the 3-Cell units either. In our case, this was not a problem due to the set, but if you needed saturation all the way to the stage deck you would likely need a ground row in addition to flown lights.

Some shots here.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BqfKkWjl3C6/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BrIpYPmlxZX/

I also posted a video where I just rolled through the Hue parameter on our Ion: https://www.instagram.com/p/BqV2xz4FgGJ/
 
So if I'm understanding what everyone is saying... I'm no expert on this ... You have several options to work with @hamlett22

1) If I understand @SteveB correctly, you probably don't need more universes. You have a limit of 1024 DMX addresses which can be assigned anyway you want. Unless you go crazy with ten cell full options mode on the cyc lights you probably only need like 300-400 addresses which you probably already have room for on the board.

2) Do you have a second unused DMX out on the board
If yes, you can either run a hard wire line to this part of the theater or you can use wireless DMX to reach the correct location

3) Using the Pathway Connectivity upgrade boards that @Rob linked to would make it much easier for you to do all the network reconfiging you want. As their Pathport software makes it easy to talk to each node and assign whatever you want to it. With a little help from Rob and their software I went through and reconfigured my theater so specific universes were available exactly where I wanted. It's pretty easy
 
Ataround $430/node to upgrade, how many do you have? The CS wireless transmitter/receiver pair is $850 - two of the node upgrade boards. And they said there would be no math.

Hey spenserh!! Thanks for posting pics. Very nice.
 
Our cyclorama is 44' and we use 8 ColorSource CYCs on the mid CYC used from the floor. It creates beautiful, smooth washes of light on a cyclorama or wall. ... This is the first ETC fixture to use this unique five-color mix; red, green, blue, indigo, and lime, which gives a great range of colors.
On our upstage CYC we use 10 ETC ColorSource Linear 2s.you can do wonderful things with these. In a pinch I can light my mud CYC with just the rear CYC.
 
Curious if OP has dead hung or rigged battens that raise and lower. The Chauvet Ovation Batten B2805-FC is nearly 6' long and 45 pounds. The ETC CS Cyc is about a foot cube and 20 pounds. If I'm hanging off a ladder or even a Genie, there's a difference.

Granted the Chauvet is probably 5 times the output - quickly based on 5 times the power - and if you need that, a good deal. It does make sense of gafftaper's comments on levels of typical at 5% and rarely over 30%. Just trying to look at whole picture. Its like the DMX question: is this the one likely addition for several years or are you likely to be adding more LED and some automated lights soon? Running a hard line from console for cycs could be the least expensive and simplest solution, but if you're going to need more distributed data next week or next year, look at beefing up the network and node inventory with upgrade kits or new. If going new, look at 4 port portables - least expensive per DMX line and requires fewer network lines.
 
but if you're going to need more distributed data next week or next year, look at beefing up the network and node inventory with upgrade kits or new.

Remarkable how DMX addresses get gobbled up when you go into LED's. I could see an Ion in his future


If going new, look at 4 port portables - least expensive per DMX line and requires fewer network lines.

Or the Pathway Octo. About $2,000 for 8 universes vs. $1200 for an ETC 4 port. Needs local AC power is the only gotcha.
 
So if I'm understanding what everyone is saying... I'm no expert on this ... You have several options to work with @hamlett22

1) If I understand @SteveB correctly, you probably don't need more universes. You have a limit of 1024 DMX addresses which can be assigned anyway you want. Unless you go crazy with ten cell full options mode on the cyc lights you probably only need like 300-400 addresses which you probably already have room for on the board.

2) Do you have a second unused DMX out on the board
If yes, you can either run a hard wire line to this part of the theater or you can use wireless DMX to reach the correct location

3) Using the Pathway Connectivity upgrade boards that @Rob linked to would make it much easier for you to do all the network reconfiging you want. As their Pathport software makes it easy to talk to each node and assign whatever you want to it. With a little help from Rob and their software I went through and reconfigured my theater so specific universes were available exactly where I wanted. It's pretty easy
I have ethernet ports all over the theatre and the catwalks (multiple hang points for instruments) so I can plug gateways in where ever I want. My cyc lights will go on a batten that I can raise and lower as needed. If I plug another gateway into an ethernet port (which goes to a switch in our dimmer room, which our ETC element console communicates via to the various gateways in use) and i go BEYOND 512 DMX addresses, how do I assign 512 and beyond DMX addresses to a specific gateway? According to the manual on my ETC element console, when going to a 2nd universe I have to patch like this... 2/1 (meaning 2nd universe to address 1). Currently, using only 1 universe (1-512) I just patch 1 to 1 (i.e.P 420 to 4, which assigns DMX address 420 to channel 4). Now when i assign a profile to DMX address 420 (i.e.: A City Theatrical Iris) 2 addresses are automatically assigned to channel 4 (420-421) via the profile config of that accessory. According to the Chauvet manual on those cycl lights, I can assign DMX address 1-512 on the instrument panel. if I want to use the 2nd universe on a gateway connected to the Cyc lights, how do I get the cyc light to understand that the gateway wants to assign a second universe of addresses from the Element? That is where I get confused.
 
I have ethernet ports all over the theatre and the catwalks (multiple hang points for instruments) so I can plug gateways in where ever I want. My cyc lights will go on a batten that I can raise and lower as needed. If I plug another gateway into an ethernet port (which goes to a switch in our dimmer room, which our ETC element console communicates via to the various gateways in use) and i go BEYOND 512 DMX addresses, how do I assign 512 and beyond DMX addresses to a specific gateway? According to the manual on my ETC element console, when going to a 2nd universe I have to patch like this... 2/1 (meaning 2nd universe to address 1). Currently, using only 1 universe (1-512) I just patch 1 to 1 (i.e.P 420 to 4, which assigns DMX address 420 to channel 4). Now when i assign a profile to DMX address 420 (i.e.: A City Theatrical Iris) 2 addresses are automatically assigned to channel 4 (420-421) via the profile config of that accessory. According to the Chauvet manual on those cycl lights, I can assign DMX address 1-512 on the instrument panel. if I want to use the 2nd universe on a gateway connected to the Cyc lights, how do I get the cyc light to understand that the gateway wants to assign a second universe of addresses from the Element? That is where I get confused.

If using Net 2 nodes, you configure in an ETC program called Net 2 Configuration Editor. It’s (sometimes) in the Elemnt shell. When you plug a node into the network, it should show up on CE, when you do a Network Search (the actual term escapes me). Once CE sees the node you then use CE to tell a node and it’s particular ports, to transmit on Universe 2. You then push the CE config to the node and now you have a node that can send DMX on U2 to the strips, or anything desired. If you have Net 3 nodes, (they say in a label on the node), you use a program called Concert. CE like Concert, can configure nodes for a lot of things, input or output from the ports, which univers of 64 or so, and other slick functions.

If the software to configure Net devices isn’t in the shell, give ETC tech support a call they can direct you as to what software to use and how. Sometimes you need to download to a PC and a thumb drive, than install on the console. 1 800 688 4116, ask for lighting tech support, note they are on Central time.

The console doesn’t actually know there’s a node listening to U2, it just blast sends the Ethernet data, which might be either Net 2 or the newer Net3, also know as sACN. There might be some settings you need to do in shell such as turning on DHCP server, which lets the console send an IP address to the node, as well as turning on Net2 as a Ethernet protocol to transmit (it’s likely turned on already).

Remember that the cyc lights will only use the quantity of addresses you set them to. If you have 6 fixtures of ColorForce 72 (as example) and have them set to a 54 address footprint per fixture (a mode set at the fixture and in the Elemnt patch) that’s 324 addresses used. If you have 150 dimmers in the house system (as example) that’s not using all of Universe 1. You can than use the remaining 362 addresses of Universe 1 for strips, or LED’s of another type. Or run the strips on U2. The Elemnt will tell you how many addresses it’s used ups just hit About.
 
The console doesn’t actually know there’s a node listening to U2, it just blast sends the Ethernet data, which might be either Net 2 or the newer Net3, also know as sACN. There might be some settings you need to do in shell such as turning on DHCP server, which lets the console send an IP address to the node, as well as turning on Net2 as a Ethernet protocol to transmit (it’s likely turned on already).

To take this statement a bit further for absolute clarity. Let's use the example that we are programming a device to be on universe 3 channel 100: In a DMX system. The console constantly yells out Ethernet data into the network with no idea how a device gets the information and no confirmation that the information is received.

Through the use of patch and profiles you tell the console what device is waiting out there for information on universe 3 channel 100. But the communication is all one way. The console just keeps yelling out a long string of numbers hoping someone is listening out there at the address you patched. The Device doesn't tell anything to the network.

The Node takes all the information from all universes that the console is continuously yelling out into the ethernet stream and, removes and discards all data except for the universe it is set to operate on. So if you are broadcasting data to 10 universes, the node dumps all the data except the data for universe 3 which it passes down the line as simply data for channels 1-512

Finally the LED/Mover/DMX controlled device we set up on Universe 3 channel 100 hears what it is supposed to do on channel 100. It has no idea what universe it's in as the other 9 universes were taken away by the Node. With just one universe of data getting through the device simply thinks of itself as #100.


As we move forward, the combination of ACN (the generic protocol that is poised to replace DMX) and RDM (Remote Device Management) will make it possible for smart two direction communication to happen. You will simply plug in a device, it'll talk to the network and the console will patch it automatically. The technology exists right now and works in some cases if you have the correct device and console combination. Unfortunately right now, most devices only work within a certain proprietary language of their manufacturer or they have to translate by a node into the old universal DMX protocol (which doesn't have two way communication). So we are all stuck waiting for the manufacturers to either declare a winner of the proprietary standards or to all accept ACN as the new universal language.
 
To take this statement a bit further for absolute clarity. Let's use the example that we are programming a device to be on universe 3 channel 100: In a DMX system. The console constantly yells out Ethernet data into the network with no idea how a device gets the information and no confirmation that the information is received.

Through the use of patch and profiles you tell the console what device is waiting out there for information on universe 3 channel 100. But the communication is all one way. The console just keeps yelling out a long string of numbers hoping someone is listening out there at the address you patched. The Device doesn't tell anything to the network.

The Node takes all the information from all universes that the console is continuously yelling out into the ethernet stream and, removes and discards all data except for the universe it is set to operate on. So if you are broadcasting data to 10 universes, the node dumps all the data except the data for universe 3 which it passes down the line as simply data for channels 1-512
To take this one more one more step further, the specifics of this are dependent on your networking setup. In a network that was configured/setup for sACN/net3 operation, it's possible/likely that you have a managed switch configured with IGMP snooping and multicast related settings, meaning that the node "subscribes" to only the universes it wants to hear, and never has to perform any filtering itself. This filtering occurs at the switch/networking level.

In a network configured during the etcnet2 days, most of the time igmp snooping was disabled and network fell back to broadcast traffic. In this environment, all nodes saw all data and had to perform the filtering in software. This added a lot of overhead to the system in large setups. It's one of the reasons sACN is better than etcnet2. It's also an issue with the version of artnet that eos supports, where only broadcast transmissions is allowed.
 
I have c1980 Colortran 3-circuit incandescent cyc units (9 total cells) that I use to light about 40'x20' cyc or scrim. The closest I can light using this configuration is from 4' downstage, with three units on fixed batten and three on floor I get pretty bright color and less-than-nice blend -- there are hot spots and dim gaps. I typically gel as RGB and can bring up quite a range of color in that mix, though with a red or green hue on either end as the gels are in a line, blue in middle. My other fixed configuration is 12' downstage from batten and variable from floor position. Of course, this is dimmer, but a great blend. Working from only the floor at 4'-6' downstage provides adequate color that tapers off quickly at the top with less hot spots with greater setback.

I did a shootout with both the ETC CS Cyc and the Altman Spectra Cyc200 (and a handful of other instruments). These two stood out as the most comparable to the Colortran units I'm used to working with. However, I was hoping to move forward with only the close option, only either fly or floor, and for both felt that the cyc was not bright enough to stand behind the bounce from my front light (ETC S4 incand). I'm not ready to invest, yet (budget woes), but I would look at those two instruments again - certainly the next generation to follow. The basic reflector design of both these instruments is close to the Colortran reflector and makes the most sense in my mind.
 
I have c1980 Colortran 3-circuit incandescent cyc units (9 total cells) that I use to light about 40'x20' cyc or scrim. The closest I can light using this configuration is from 4' downstage, with three units on fixed batten and three on floor I get pretty bright color and less-than-nice blend -- there are hot spots and dim gaps. I typically gel as RGB and can bring up quite a range of color in that mix, though with a red or green hue on either end as the gels are in a line, blue in middle. My other fixed configuration is 12' downstage from batten and variable from floor position. Of course, this is dimmer, but a great blend. Working from only the floor at 4'-6' downstage provides adequate color that tapers off quickly at the top with less hot spots with greater setback.

I did a shootout with both the ETC CS Cyc and the Altman Spectra Cyc200 (and a handful of other instruments). These two stood out as the most comparable to the Colortran units I'm used to working with. However, I was hoping to move forward with only the close option, only either fly or floor, and for both felt that the cyc was not bright enough to stand behind the bounce from my front light (ETC S4 incand). I'm not ready to invest, yet (budget woes), but I would look at those two instruments again - certainly the next generation to follow. The basic reflector design of both these instruments is close to the Colortran reflector and makes the most sense in my mind.

It's always a fight for depth to use the CS Cyc or Spectra Cyc units, which you are correct in that they best replace an open faced incandescent cyc unit like your C-Tran. Sometimes you don't have the depth and I consider 4 ft to be too close unless you are less than 20ft high. My cyc is 28 and we used L&E MR16 strips. The replacment for that style is the Chauvet strip, ColorForce II's, or ETC Selador strips. Hopefully you get lensing options to help spread the image, ETC excels at this, Chroma-Q isn't bad and I see that Cauvet offers a " holographic filter " that might do the same thing.
 
If using Net 2 nodes, you configure in an ETC program called Net 2 Configuration Editor. It’s (sometimes) in the Elemnt shell. When you plug a node into the network, it should show up on CE, when you do a Network Search (the actual term escapes me). Once CE sees the node you then use CE to tell a node and it’s particular ports, to transmit on Universe 2. You then push the CE config to the node and now you have a node that can send DMX on U2 to the strips, or anything desired. If you have Net 3 nodes, (they say in a label on the node), you use a program called Concert. CE like Concert, can configure nodes for a lot of things, input or output from the ports, which univers of 64 or so, and other slick functions.

If the software to configure Net devices isn’t in the shell, give ETC tech support a call they can direct you as to what software to use and how. Sometimes you need to download to a PC and a thumb drive, than install on the console. 1 800 688 4116, ask for lighting tech support, note they are on Central time.

The console doesn’t actually know there’s a node listening to U2, it just blast sends the Ethernet data, which might be either Net 2 or the newer Net3, also know as sACN. There might be some settings you need to do in shell such as turning on DHCP server, which lets the console send an IP address to the node, as well as turning on Net2 as a Ethernet protocol to transmit (it’s likely turned on already).

Remember that the cyc lights will only use the quantity of addresses you set them to. If you have 6 fixtures of ColorForce 72 (as example) and have them set to a 54 address footprint per fixture (a mode set at the fixture and in the Elemnt patch) that’s 324 addresses used. If you have 150 dimmers in the house system (as example) that’s not using all of Universe 1. You can than use the remaining 362 addresses of Universe 1 for strips, or LED’s of another type. Or run the strips on U2. The Elemnt will tell you how many addresses it’s used ups just hit About.
Thank you for this. Your response helped me figure it out. Perfect.
 
Curious if OP has dead hung or rigged battens that raise and lower. The Chauvet Ovation Batten B2805-FC is nearly 6' long and 45 pounds. The ETC CS Cyc is about a foot cube and 20 pounds. If I'm hanging off a ladder or even a Genie, there's a difference.

Granted the Chauvet is probably 5 times the output - quickly based on 5 times the power - and if you need that, a good deal. It does make sense of gafftaper's comments on levels of typical at 5% and rarely over 30%. Just trying to look at whole picture. Its like the DMX question: is this the one likely addition for several years or are you likely to be adding more LED and some automated lights soon? Running a hard line from console for cycs could be the least expensive and simplest solution, but if you're going to need more distributed data next week or next year, look at beefing up the network and node inventory with upgrade kits or new. If going new, look at 4 port portables - least expensive per DMX line and requires fewer network lines.
Curious if OP has dead hung or rigged battens that raise and lower. The Chauvet Ovation Batten B2805-FC is nearly 6' long and 45 pounds. The ETC CS Cyc is about a foot cube and 20 pounds. If I'm hanging off a ladder or even a Genie, there's a difference.

Granted the Chauvet is probably 5 times the output - quickly based on 5 times the power - and if you need that, a good deal. It does make sense of gafftaper's comments on levels of typical at 5% and rarely over 30%. Just trying to look at whole picture. Its like the DMX question: is this the one likely addition for several years or are you likely to be adding more LED and some automated lights soon? Running a hard line from console for cycs could be the least expensive and simplest solution, but if you're going to need more distributed data next week or next year, look at beefing up the network and node inventory with upgrade kits or new. If going new, look at 4 port portables - least expensive per DMX line and requires fewer network lines.
Good advice, thank you. I am looking at ETC's 2 port portables. FYI- my battens are on hoists so I can work from the floor. The Chauvets are probably my instrument of choice.
 
To take this one more one more step further, the specifics of this are dependent on your networking setup. In a network that was configured/setup for sACN/net3 operation, it's possible/likely that you have a managed switch configured with IGMP snooping and multicast related settings, meaning that the node "subscribes" to only the universes it wants to hear, and never has to perform any filtering itself. This filtering occurs at the switch/networking level.

In a network configured during the etcnet2 days, most of the time igmp snooping was disabled and network fell back to broadcast traffic. In this environment, all nodes saw all data and had to perform the filtering in software. This added a lot of overhead to the system in large setups. It's one of the reasons sACN is better than etcnet2. It's also an issue with the version of artnet that eos supports, where only broadcast transmissions is allowed.
So if I purchase this gateway from ETC, should I daisy chain the strips with 3 pin DMX-XLR cables or should I use Ethercon cables?
 
So if I purchase this gateway from ETC, should I daisy chain the strips with 3 pin DMX-XLR cables or should I use Ethercon cables?

The answer is dependent on how many universes you need at the position. If only one universe, maybe buy a one port node and run Ethernet to the position, than DMX daisy unit to unit. It really depends on the fixture choice and how many addresses used

As well most fixtures will have 5 pin DMX connectors, so I’d order that, but the fixture spec will tell you that
 

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