techieman33
Well-Known Member
I was having the same thoughts as I was reading this. Something like this flexible led tape could probably be made to work if your creative enough.
Bending a light bulb
- Thread starterJeff Lelko
- Start date
I was having the same thoughts as I was reading this. Something like this flexible led tape could probably be made to work if your creative enough.
Jeff Lelko
Active Member
The thought has crossed my mind on that idea too. What's tricky is that for this effect to work properly the LEDs would need to be equally visible 360 degrees around off-axis, which is asking a lot. What also doesn't help in this case it how dark the lenses are - even with an 800w lamp it's still not a terribly bright fixture. It'd work better with clear lenses and blue LEDs, at which point I'd probably try to build that into an existing modern fixture as opposed to refitting these. The Chauvet LED Line Dancer is a decent example of a working solution for a different effect, though I'm partial to my full-size originals and their array of 3 300w linear lamps. Thanks for the suggestion though!
Amiers
Renting to Corporate One Fixture at a Time.
You could get 360 no problem.
Napkin theory.
4 way leds Chips soldered two long two short top.
Basically a square. Now hopefully the fixture rotates fast enough. That you wouldn’t have to tube it.
Power would need to be figured out.
Heat dissipation would need to be figured out. Could be solved cause of the rotation.
Napkin theory.
4 way leds Chips soldered two long two short top.
Basically a square. Now hopefully the fixture rotates fast enough. That you wouldn’t have to tube it.
Power would need to be figured out.
Heat dissipation would need to be figured out. Could be solved cause of the rotation.
Jeff Lelko
Active Member
The speed is adjustable via DMX, though I prefer to run them slower. I think at even 90 degree separation it’d pulsate too much. You’d also run into a situation where neighboring diodes would make simultaneous beams, thus greatly reducing the crispness of the output. The way these lights work is that you get one beam per filament per lens, so in this case the single lamp/filament makes a total of 40 beams from the unit. In contrast, my Chauvet Line Dancers use three lamps and 48 lenses for a total of 144 beams. My thought with making rings of LEDs (or using 4-way LEDs) is that the number of beams coming from the unit will constantly be changing as the assembly rotates, and as such the overall output won’t be clean. Putting them in a tube (output issues aside) would help with beam continuity but will produce a very ambiguous shape. The clean focused line is the result of a narrow filament. EL Wire would probably be the closest substitute available, but nothing I’m aware of will be bright enough. I appreciate the input though - some things just don’t really translate to LED!
Jay Ashworth
Well-Known Member
My recommendation would be to find a professional neon bender, and show zem the specialty lamp and a similar straight one, and ask zem what zey think is possible.
Jeff Lelko
Active Member
Thanks Jay, that's what I plan on doing. I had totally forgotten about the neon light industry, so thanks for bringing that to mind! I'll post back if/when I have a result. Thankfully this isn't urgent by any means, and I hope those following along were at least amused by a rather uncommon light fixture! I'm currently enjoying more light bulb fun with a 5R that doesn't seem to be aligned properly in its reflector... If nothing else it's proof that I also have modern lights in my inventory too!
Jeff Lelko
Active Member
Hi Ron, you did, and I acknowledged your suggestion in Post 9 (towards the end). With you and several others making the suggestion I think this is the best path forward versus a home-cooked solution...if not a definitely safer one. Thanks again!
Jeff Lelko
Active Member
I still don't think it'd work correctly (or at least not as well), not to mention that it'd take away from the nostalgic ambiance of the halogen light source. Pursuing an LED replacement is definitely the Plan B though!
Edit: As an example of what I'm talking about, have a look at some of the modern LED effect lights. The Chauvet Rotosphere Q3 perfectly illustrates the concept of one beam per lens per source. As the sphere rotates, you can see the individual diodes come and go as the lenses pass in and out of plane. At high speed it's less noticeable, but at slow speeds a discerning eye will catch the artifact. While the added functionality is cool, this is yet another case where I'll take my halogen originals any day.
Edit: As an example of what I'm talking about, have a look at some of the modern LED effect lights. The Chauvet Rotosphere Q3 perfectly illustrates the concept of one beam per lens per source. As the sphere rotates, you can see the individual diodes come and go as the lenses pass in and out of plane. At high speed it's less noticeable, but at slow speeds a discerning eye will catch the artifact. While the added functionality is cool, this is yet another case where I'll take my halogen originals any day.
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@Jeff Lelko Be aware differing diameters and lengths of neon will require differing voltages to initially conduct and remain lit. Purists will advise of better operation with real inductive transformer / ballasts versus the smaller, lighter, less costly electronic versions. In the early to mid 1990's our shop built several Broadway and international sets with a substantial amount of neon, three of the longer tubes were approximately 30 feet each and required sizable, heavy ballasts for instant and reliable operation. They looked great but added substantially to the weight of the flown pieces.
The largest flown incandescent and neon sign was powered by 138 120 volt 20 amp circuits extended to the flown sign by 6 eleven circuit Pyle National multi-cables from one side of the stage plus five more Pyle National's and one six circuit Socapex from the opposite side with only two spare circuits, one in one of the Pyle Nationals and the other in the lone Socapex. The production was the short-lived 'Best Little Whorehouse Goes Public' directed by Tommy Tunes and lit by Jules Fisher and Peggy Eisenhauer. Definitely a classy lady your Ms. Eisenhauer. If memory serves, the production sold poorly in previews and died within hours of opening. The largest of the three signs, the one lit by 136 active circuits (plus 2 spares) looked fabulous for the couple of weeks it hung on Broadway.
From north of Donald's walls.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
Also glass tubing for neon bends around 1000 degrees F. Quartz glass around 3500 F.
In LED, you'd need something like 1 1/2 to 2 S4WRDs for lumen output. Like 250-300 watts of efficient LED.
Sorry to throw science into this but I am not optimistic you'll ever see this work as original. Best guess is to cruise eBay and such and hope to find a used one - and never run fir long above 50%.
In LED, you'd need something like 1 1/2 to 2 S4WRDs for lumen output. Like 250-300 watts of efficient LED.
Sorry to throw science into this but I am not optimistic you'll ever see this work as original. Best guess is to cruise eBay and such and hope to find a used one - and never run fir long above 50%.
@BillConnerFASTC and @Jeff Lelko @venuetech and @Les While you're "throwing science" consider a larger diameter tube filled with argon rather than neon and look in to a variety of different internal coatings as well.
From north of Donald's walls.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
jtweigandt
Well-Known Member
And now for the win... Have the neon bender bend the glass.. Frost it inside or out, and then put the led array inside as the "filament"
A lot of our colored LED's are not the final color at the level of the diode emitter itself.. they use phosphors to produce the color. This would be similar but basically a diffusion to hide and smooth the multiple point sources
A lot of our colored LED's are not the final color at the level of the diode emitter itself.. they use phosphors to produce the color. This would be similar but basically a diffusion to hide and smooth the multiple point sources
BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
Good idea jt. How many lumens do you think you might you get?
jtweigandt
Well-Known Member
dont know, but the biggest problem would likely be packing them together, and lack of heat dissipation.
I see at least one LED strip series rated at 1000 lumens per foot.. so say 4 inches x2 back to back 800 lumens minus the filter losses.. maybe 6-700
But then how long would they keep working? sigh
I see at least one LED strip series rated at 1000 lumens per foot.. so say 4 inches x2 back to back 800 lumens minus the filter losses.. maybe 6-700
But then how long would they keep working? sigh
What fixture was this, what is the "LL" and lamp socket? It was halogen and not some form of xenon arc in other gizzards inside the fixture like ignitors? Would like a lot more fixture photos and lamp socket and area photos. Strobe light concept correct? Obviously send it to me and I'll fix it within specifications to work for free or pay dependant on what's going on with it. Otherwise on line if of help need more info. While I have a lot of lamp types including ADJ in stock, I don't have that one. This in not getting into the LED concept before I know more about the fixture.
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