Why is lighting so less popular than sound?
- Thread starterLyle Williams
- Start date
Lynnchesque
Well-Known Member
I think if your pathway into the "entertainment industry" is through music, you're going to be a lot more likely to pick up a mixer. Lighting is a luxury to those folks. Your wedding DJs for instance- they'll pick up a few wireless lav mics for the ceremony (which I wish they wouldn't, it's a feed-backing/drop-outing mess every time) long before they get a light board; and when they do they still don't program anything into it. The on-board audio reactive programs on their stuff is good enough.
That's the other thing, the apparent straightforwardness of running a mixer (fader goes up, sound gets louder) vs a lighting console (step by step programing of every chase). The word "programming" make a lot of folk's eyes glaze over.
That said, I work at a mostly lighting production shop, and we need more good sound guys!
That's the other thing, the apparent straightforwardness of running a mixer (fader goes up, sound gets louder) vs a lighting console (step by step programing of every chase). The word "programming" make a lot of folk's eyes glaze over.
That said, I work at a mostly lighting production shop, and we need more good sound guys!
Lyle Williams
Well-Known Member
On the
So much lighting on a big tour. So little at-the-bottom-of-the-pile exposure with no gear and no little fish dreaming of being big sharks.
Sound is full of bar-band people dreaming of going on tour. Where are the up-n-coming lampies outside theatre? Too smart to work for beers?
So much lighting on a big tour. So little at-the-bottom-of-the-pile exposure with no gear and no little fish dreaming of being big sharks.
Sound is full of bar-band people dreaming of going on tour. Where are the up-n-coming lampies outside theatre? Too smart to work for beers?
Lyle Williams
Well-Known Member
macsound
Well-Known Member
In hotel work, there was some corporate hierarchy that needed to be established and I was asked to be a specialist in a department. My boss said I HAD to be the lighting specialist because everyone loved audio, more or less ok in video but no one knew lighting.
We found this to be true when hiring union overhire as well.
As far as sales go, I think this is related to the past where lighting used tons of power.
Imagine a quote from an installer for a bar planning on having a small band.
2 speakers, 1 mixer, 5 microphones, 7 XLR, 1 small audio snake. 2 mounting locations, 1 conduit and 3 20A circuits.
Same space for lighting.
12 lights, 1 controller, 1000 feet of SJO, ETC Smartpack, 3phase 40A
The install itself is so ridiculous in comparison, they do what someone said above instead, have a handyman from craigslist install a single piece of track light.
We found this to be true when hiring union overhire as well.
As far as sales go, I think this is related to the past where lighting used tons of power.
Imagine a quote from an installer for a bar planning on having a small band.
2 speakers, 1 mixer, 5 microphones, 7 XLR, 1 small audio snake. 2 mounting locations, 1 conduit and 3 20A circuits.
Same space for lighting.
12 lights, 1 controller, 1000 feet of SJO, ETC Smartpack, 3phase 40A
The install itself is so ridiculous in comparison, they do what someone said above instead, have a handyman from craigslist install a single piece of track light.
STEVETERRY
Well-Known Member
Having been in both camps, I'll offer up a personal experience:
In 1975, I was responsible for the care and feeding of the first computer lighting control system on Broadway, for A Chorus Line at the Shubert Theatre. I went on to become an assistant electrician running the show every night. This went on for about a year. Then Otts Munderloh, the Production Sound Engineer, left to work on other Michael Bennett projects. I took over mixing the show.
After about three months of abject terror, when I was at last comfortable with the job, I reflected during a pause in the show. I thought to myself: "If you're in technical theatre, it just doesn't get any better than this."
I felt that I was an integral part of the artistic outcome of the show every night, and that had never happened in lighting.
Much later, after mixing "They're Playing Our Song" and "The 1940's Radio Hour" on Broadway, I got comfortable with both my strengths and limitations (it's a long story), and moved firmly into the nuts and bolts of engineering of lighting systems at Production Arts.
It was a fascinating trajectory that I would not change for anything.
ST
I was trained in lighting but as a td of hs/muni venue most of the work ends up being audio. The house plot covers most events with a few focus changes and is easily flexed at the desk. The audio is ever changing so most of the work ends up on stage with the talent/artists or event needs. I think for various reasons I have replaced the main house audio desk 5 times over a 25 year span. Plus two monitor desks and various utility mixers, small loaner systems and the all to numerous never ending audio kitchen gadgets plus a snake pit full of pigtails. With no nearby rental house, I end up keeping a stash of backline support also. A Big pile of processors and graphic EQs sit gathering dust since the main desk went digital.
Students and volunteers get trained but they have many irons in the fire, so they may commit for one or two productions before they graduate or rotate out.
It seem you need to take audio anywhere and everywhere, no gig too small type of thing so you need many things in your bag of tricks.
Students and volunteers get trained but they have many irons in the fire, so they may commit for one or two productions before they graduate or rotate out.
It seem you need to take audio anywhere and everywhere, no gig too small type of thing so you need many things in your bag of tricks.
@STEVETERRY Having only met you once for a day long breakfast, lunch and dinner meeting chaired by you in your then spiffy new Production Arts board room regarding the musical Tommy in Offenbach Frankfurt, Germany with three gentlemen from TUV, the German producer, his assistant, three others from our Canadian automation and scenery shop, Associate LD David Grill and a couple of others from 'Tommy'; PLEASE ELABORATE on your long story. I began in commercial AM broadcast maintenance with a six tower 5 Kw array and migrated into sound then eventually into lighting. I'd no idea you'd ever been involved with sound. PLEASE do tell more.Having been in both camps, I'll offer up a personal experience:
In 1975, I was responsible for the care and feeding of the first computer lighting control system on Broadway, for A Chorus Line at the Shubert Theatre. I went on to become an assistant electrician running the show every night. This went on for about a year. Then Otts Munderloh, the Production Sound Engineer, left to work on other Michael Bennett projects. I took over mixing the show.
After about three months of abject terror, when I was at last comfortable with the job, I reflected during a pause in the show. I thought to myself: "If you're in technical theatre, it just doesn't get any better than this."
I felt that I was an integral part of the artistic outcome of the show every night, and that had never happened in lighting.
Much later, after mixing "They're Playing Our Song" and "The 1940's Radio Hour" on Broadway, I got comfortable with both my strengths and limitations (it's a long story), and moved firmly into the nuts and bolts of engineering of lighting systems at Production Arts.
It was a fascinating trajectory that I would not change for anything.
ST
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
Chris Pflieger
Well-Known Member
"Nobody goes home after a show humming the lights."
EdSavoie
Well-Known Member
But nobody stays for the show if it's black
I'll have to agree that there are far more places that use and need mixers more than lighting consoles.
I would argue a lot of sales is the barrier to entry in terms of cost. You can mix into a computer or a set of headphones as your output, but the barrier for lighting is much higher, requiring dimmers or intelligent fixtures in addition to the mixer.
I'd be willing to bet sales of high end touring mixers are very similar to touring lighting desks.
Chris Pflieger
Well-Known Member
jcslighting
Member
As someone who does a fair amount of lighting and audio here are my thoughts....
From an equipment purchase standpoint only what percentage of 'audio consoles' are simple analog or lower cost digital consoles (x air or equiv) vs. even entry level lighting controllers ? The average theatre desk like an ION will cost 2 to 3 times a lower end digital sound board.
Couple this with the broad spectrum of venues that require no specialized lighting but do need basic sound......City council chambers, courtrooms, churches, stadiums, gymnasiums, public meeting rooms, etc and while some markets are expanding in terms of lights such as churches there are plenty of traditional spaces with just basic lighting. The average local band or even church gospel group doesn't need a ton of expensive gear to get started in sound especially if you only amplify vocals through the PA but basic lighting seems too expensive for many to justify the expense.
I don't think the question referred to jobs as much as equipment sales.
From an equipment purchase standpoint only what percentage of 'audio consoles' are simple analog or lower cost digital consoles (x air or equiv) vs. even entry level lighting controllers ? The average theatre desk like an ION will cost 2 to 3 times a lower end digital sound board.
Couple this with the broad spectrum of venues that require no specialized lighting but do need basic sound......City council chambers, courtrooms, churches, stadiums, gymnasiums, public meeting rooms, etc and while some markets are expanding in terms of lights such as churches there are plenty of traditional spaces with just basic lighting. The average local band or even church gospel group doesn't need a ton of expensive gear to get started in sound especially if you only amplify vocals through the PA but basic lighting seems too expensive for many to justify the expense.
I don't think the question referred to jobs as much as equipment sales.
Quentin (Cue)
Member
I've always found lighting easier than sound. The first lighting board I ever worked on was an ETA-1200 two scene pre-set controller which I felt was a good way to start learning how to use lighting controllers, (It's also the first controller I teach the interns I train at my local theater how to use before moving onto a computerized controller,) after that I went onto computerized controllers. I now mainly work with an LP-1548
Sound mixers have always gone over my head. Like, I understand the basics of how to hook it up, control it, etc. but getting into the fine details of what everything does is always so confusing.
I was surprised to see this thread that people seem more attracted to sound rather than lighting. I honestly don't understand how that's possible. In my opinion, I feel lighting allows for more creativity than sound and that you can do more with it.
Sound mixers have always gone over my head. Like, I understand the basics of how to hook it up, control it, etc. but getting into the fine details of what everything does is always so confusing.
I was surprised to see this thread that people seem more attracted to sound rather than lighting. I honestly don't understand how that's possible. In my opinion, I feel lighting allows for more creativity than sound and that you can do more with it.
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