Berkey Colortran Help Needed

A local high school has asked us to assist them with some lighting issues. They have a very old looking Berkey Colortran system. The console has 2 x 15 fader rows and some x fade paddles. The Dimmer rack has 6 dimmers from what I can see and some say 3KW, others 6Kw. They say it works (after a fashion)!

We have two main questions;
Presumably the console is NOT putting out DMX (True/False)
Are the dimmers supplying up to 120vac so they can use the usual stage lights or do they require "Special" fixtures?

Any help would be appreciated, we're at a loss!

Most likely an older analog board putting out a DC voltage. How many pins on the connectors?
Nothing special about the fixtures. Should be able to use any conventional fixtures up to the rated wattage.

Pix would be great. Depending on what board it is it may be DMX, AMX or a proprietary Digital Serial communication; need to know what the board is. The can be used as dimmers, yes. you do not want to use them to power Non-dimmable LED fixtures, motors or other 'solid state' devices only incandescent fixtures.

Thanks to both for your replies. Not sure how to post pictures here. We only saw it briefly and so the question about the number of pins we need to go back and look. Looking at the 2" metal pipe coming out the back (and heading to the stage) it doesn't look like DMX to me. The news that their lights would work with a regular (DMX) dimmer pack was somewhat re-assuring. I'll post pics when I learn how.

Robert F Jarvis said:

Thanks to both for your replies. Not sure how to post pictures here. We only saw it briefly and so the question about the number of pins we need to go back and look. Looking at the 2" metal pipe coming out the back (and heading to the stage) it doesn't look like DMX to me. The news that their lights would work with a regular (DMX) dimmer pack was somewhat re-assuring. I'll post pics when I learn how.

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@Robert F Jarvis @JD and @Van Summarizing: How many contacts on the control connectors, not the load connectors? The control could be analog; one contact and wire per dimmer plus a common OR it could be Colrotran's CMX but not likely if it's elderly. A 2" conduit between the dimmers and the deck is more likely the dimmer outputs rather than their control inputs. Since you're posting from North America the dimmers are most likely putting out 120 volts A.C. and would be suitable / more than happy to dim 120 volt incandescent lamps. As previously posted: Don't use the dimmers to power LED's, motors, fluorescents, compact fluorescents or inductive loads.
Does this pull all of the confusion together in one post?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

Currently to post pictures look for the "Upload a File" button below where you type text.
From the additional info posted at Blue-Room I have to wonder if the dimmer modules have more than 1 dimmer circuit in them. (I have only used the portable Berkey dimmers so no real idea on the large systems BTW). I would think that if you have two rows of 15 sliders you would therefore have 15 dimmer circuits.
So yes, please post photos, especially the patch panels.

Robert F Jarvis said:

A local high school has asked us to assist them with some lighting issues. They have a very old looking Berkey Colortran system. The console has 2 x 15 fader rows and some x fade paddles. The Dimmer rack has 6 dimmers from what I can see and some say 3KW, others 6Kw. They say it works (after a fashion)!

We have two main questions;
Presumably the console is NOT putting out DMX (True/False)
Are the dimmers supplying up to 120vac so they can use the usual stage lights or do they require "Special" fixtures?

Any help would be appreciated, we're at a loss!

Click to expand...

If it says "Berkey" on it, it pre-dates DMX, thus and as John stated, likely an analog console. Was the console and/or dimmer packs blue ? as that was the trademark color Berkey used at that era.

Nothing "special" about the dimmers, the SCR dimming method is still in use. Incandescent lighting loads (stage lights) get their voltage reduced from 120v down to zero, via the dimmer and I wouldn't put anything but an incandescent load on a dimmer. You can load up the dimmers to the capacity, normally. 3kw dimmers with 4x750 watt units. I tend to be conservative and only load to 75-80% as I never assume (except with ETC Sensor dimmers) that the load breakers on the packs are full load rated and with really old stuff - this gear might be 40 years old, conservative is good.

Thankyou and other repliers. I will visit school Monday 3pmish armed with a list of your questions. Ron's mention about that 2" pipe bring dimmer output back to the console puzzled me, or did I read it wrong Ron?
Thanks for the picture info; There's one of the console and another of the dimmer rack and distribution board. Interestingly there were no model numbers on any of this except for "DIST" on the distribution board. More info Monday then folks. I'm getting back a lot more stuff then I expected on a unit this old (I suspect early 80's or late 70's even)

Robert F Jarvis said:

...Thanks for the picture info; There's one of the console and another of the dimmer rack and distribution board.

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"Distribution board"=patch panel. See https://www.controlbooth.com/threads/understanding-touring-dimmer-rack-patch-panels.45115/ .
Your dates are close--I would say firmly mid-1970s.
If the system works, it works. Use it and be happy. Suspect though that parts of the control console are dying.
Steve Short at Lite-Trol would be able to repair any part of the system.
Using a DMX-to-analog protocol converter outputting the correct control voltage would allow you to deploy any modern DMX console with existing dimmers and distribution.

- A 15 channel, 2 scene preset console, almost certainly an analog (not DMX) console.

- Controlling a 12 dimmer system, probably 3x6kw and 9x3kw dimmers. Looks like they never purchased 6kw dimmers 13-15, which would have gone in the empty slots above the 6kw dimmers in the 2nd photo. And no, as to that question not likely to find a model, though possibly Steve Short at Litetrol Service in NY - 516 681 5288 would know.

- A patch panel with receptacles for 15 dimmers, only 12 available.

- ?? number of circuits that can patch to the 12 dimmers. The individual patchable circuits have their load breakers on the top of the patch panel and look like 20 amp rated wire, so the individual stage receptacles in the the theater can be loaded individually to whatever the capacity of the load breaker is.

Note that the console has a fader and button ?, labeled "House Light", so some dimmers somewhere else for the auditorium house lights ?, or do they just turn on/off ?

As well 3 yellow handled faders on the console upper row that might be "something contact" and might be on/off relays and send power via the lower rows of outlets on the patch panel ?.

Thanks Steve. As this and other information flows in I am getting a pretty good picture now of the setup. The next phase will entail a visit Monday to run everything we can to see if/what works or not. Obviously if everything works we could merely augment the system with some DMX/dimmer boxes and run them for a simple little 12 channel DMX desk to double their versatility. But, having said that one could almost imagine buying 6 x 4 channel dimmers to provide 24 channels all DMX controllable. So, its wait for Monday really to assess the situation.

Robert F Jarvis said:

But, having said that one could almost imagine buying 6 x 4 channel dimmers to provide 24 channels all DMX controllable. So, its wait for Monday really to assess the situation.

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The only thing I would caution against is that those 4x dimmer packs usually have a low capacity - even lower than it looks at first glance. 4x600 is a bit limited but enough to play with, but the pack total is actually going to be somewhere around 15 amps (~1800w). So that means you could only use three channels at any one time. Just wanted to make sure you were aware of that little catch.

This is assuming you're looking at the Chauvet/Elation/Similar packs. Those from Leprecon/Lightronics/Similar are more likely to have higher headroom available.

Les said:

The only thing I would caution against is that those 4x dimmer packs usually have a low capacity - even lower than it looks at first glance. 4x600 is a bit limited but enough to play with, but the pack total is actually going to be somewhere around 15 amps. So that means you could only use three channels at any one time. Just wanted to make sure you were aware of that little catch.

This is assuming you're looking at the Chauvet/Elation/Similar packs. Those from Leprecon/Lightronics/Similar are more likely to have higher headroom available.

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Robert F Jarvis said:

Thanks Steve. As this and other information flows in I am getting a pretty good picture now of the setup. The next phase will entail a visit Monday to run everything we can to see if/what works or not. Obviously if everything works we could merely augment the system with some DMX/dimmer boxes and run them for a simple little 12 channel DMX desk to double their versatility. But, having said that one could almost imagine buying 6 x 4 channel dimmers to provide 24 channels all DMX controllable. So, its wait for Monday really to assess the situation.

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@Robert F Jarvis (Copy @Les ) Many of the smaller, cheaper, more economical four dimmer packs are powered by one 15 amp power input cord commonly fused or breakered for 15 amps total. Each dimmer may be rated for 600 watts but you can't load them all to 600 watts and operate them all at 100% simultaneously. Some four or six dimmer packs are powered by more than one power cord, often two cords each sized, rated and circuit breakered for 15 or 20 Amps per cord. Most four or six dimmer packs powered by two cords employ their first cord to power their internal DMX and control electronics and the lower numbered two or three of their four or six dimmers with their second power input cord powering their remaining two or three dimmers. As with many items, price often reflects quality, longevity, desirability and overall performance. Buy once, cry once commonly applies. Forewarned is forearmed. @derekleffew Care to comment?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

Looking at Photo 2 and @SteveB 's interpretation of it, I would think that the first 6 columns of 6 outlets each would be for the (intended) 6kW dimmers and then the (EDIT: 9 not 12)9columns of 4 outlets each would be for the 3kW dimmers. In that case, they sure have that patched weird, all the connected plugs are going to the 6 x 6kW group and nothing to the 3kw group.
Also, for anyone coming across this in the future, Berkey Colortran had 3 versions of the cord patch.

JohnD said:

Looking at Photo 2 and @SteveB 's interpretation of it, I would think that the first 6 columns of 6 outlets each would be for the (intended) 6kW dimmers and then the 12 columns of 4 outlets each would be for the 3kW dimmers. In that case, they sure have that patched weird, all the connected plugs are going to the 6 x 6kW group and nothing to the 3kw group.
Also, for anyone coming across this in the future, Berkey Colortran had 3 versions of the cord patch.
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It’s kind of odd. A matrix of 6x6 alongside one of 9x4 which I assume are the dimmer receptacles including 3 missing 6kw’s (that have stuff patched into them). Than the stuff below.

Only the OP knows what it does at this point.

Thanks Ron. Yes, we used x4 dimmer pack on our smaller stage before we went 100% LED. When I arrived nearly every one had blow a fuse on one of the channels! People just don't seem to read the specs and cautions.