Element 60-250 programming question...

I recently began working with this Element 60-250 console after many years of older ones. So I'm not too familiar with programming it, but I can do the straight basics enough to have run a few shows already.

But I'm doing a show now where I have a 55 minute continuous fade down to a night scene, BUT along the way I have to have some on-and-off lightswitch cues. HELP !!!

My last console had a split fader, so while one side was running the dim down, I'd program the other side for the on-off stuff. But I don't know how to program it on this one, and frankly haven't taken the time to read that manual.

Thanks.

ecpn said:

I recently began working with this Element 60-250 console after many years of older ones. So I'm not too familiar with programming it, but I can do the straight basics enough to have run a few shows already.

But I'm doing a show now where I have a 55 minute continuous fade down to a night scene, BUT along the way I have to have some on-and-off lightswitch cues. HELP !!!

My last console had a split fader, so while one side was running the dim down, I'd program the other side for the on-off stuff. But I don't know how to program it on this one, and frankly haven't taken the time to read that manual.

Thanks.

Click to expand...

The Element, like all EOS line consoles, is a move-fade console. This means that cues will only change the channels that are recorded into the cues. If a cue doesn't have a change for a channel, then the level and parameter information will track through (not change) when the cue is played back.

To do what you want, record your 55 minute fade cue. Then record the cues for the light switches but make sure that you don't change the levels on the channels that are changing in the 55 minute cue. That way those channels will track through and not be affected by the light switch cues.

Make sense?

-Todd

tdrga said:

The Element, like all EOS line consoles, is a move-fade console. This means that cues will only change the channels that are recorded into the cues. If a cue doesn't have a change for a channel, then the level and parameter information will track through (not change) when the cue is played back.

To do what you want, record your 55 minute fade cue. Then record the cues for the light switches but make sure that you don't change the levels on the channels that are changing in the 55 minute cue. That way those channels will track through and not be affected by the light switch cues.

Make sense?

-Todd

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply, but I'm not sure that I fully get it. If the 55 min. fadedown is Cue 2, are you saying to record cues 3, 4, 5, and 6 as JUST the light going on and off per cue? Wouldn't that affect the fadedown? Am I or am I NOT inputting the other area lights (and with what intensities) in each of the following on/off lightswitch cues?

Thanks again. I hope I 'get it' .

ecpn said:

Thanks for the reply, but I'm not sure that I fully get it. If the 55 min. fadedown is Cue 2, are you saying to record cues 3, 4, 5, and 6 as JUST the light going on and off per cue? Wouldn't that affect the fadedown? Am I or am I NOT inputting the other area lights (and with what intensities) in each of the following on/off lightswitch cues?

Thanks again. I hope I 'get it' .

Click to expand...

@ecpn and @tdrga I'm NOT an ETC programmer: That said; I've decades of Strand programming behind me. I believe what @tdrga is telling you is: Record your lengthy fade down cue. Then record your light switch cues (with their zero or 0.1 cue times .) Assuming your console is recording in what Strand would call "tracking" mode; channels with no instructions will "track" through unchanged: If they were fixed at a recorded level they'd remain there unchanged. If they were fading down in a previously recorded time-line, they'd continue fading down on their time-line. Likewise, if they were previously recorded to fade up on a pre-recorded time-line they'd likewise continue to do so.
Here's one of the important parts to wrap your head around: There is an important distinction between commanding a channel's level to change to a level of zero versus NOT recording any levels for a given channel (or group of channels) [ Zero instructions is / are different than instructing a channel to a level of zero] Within any cue; channels with nary a change specified WILL continue to follow whatever commands they were last given. Think of this as LTP (Last Takes Precedence)
Clear as mud, right? Welcome to the joys of tracking consoles. Tracking consoles are perhaps easiest to understand when recording all cues in sequential order. If / when you need to insert a cue within a previously recorded sequence: Welcome to the joys of the "Cue Only" command / key / button.
Got it? If you prefer: Record a few experimental cues with cue numbers far higher than you'd normally use; 500 through 510 for example. Experiment until you've got the hang of it then you can always delete your experimental cues with no loss / effect on your current production.
I'll butt out and crawl back into my cave.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

ecpn said:

Thanks for the reply, but I'm not sure that I fully get it. If the 55 min. fadedown is Cue 2, are you saying to record cues 3, 4, 5, and 6 as JUST the light going on and off per cue? Wouldn't that affect the fadedown? Am I or am I NOT inputting the other area lights (and with what intensities) in each of the following on/off lightswitch cues?

Thanks again. I hope I 'get it' .

Click to expand...

Correct - if your cues 3, 4 ,5 and 6 are just the light switching on and off, then only record those channels in the cues.
So if cue 2 is your 55 minute fade, lets say channels 1-10 going to zero, then put channels 1 thru 10 at zero and type:

• Record Cue 2 Time 55:00 Enter

Now you are sitting in the end state of Cue 2 - as if the 55 minute cue had finished.
Lets say your light switch channel is 11 and it comes on in Cue 3, off in Cue 4 and on in Cue 5 and off in Cue 6.
You can type:

• 11 Full Enter
• Record Cue 3+5 Time 0 Enter
• 11 Out
• Record Cue 4+6 Time 0 Enter

Now Go To Cue 1 (or whatever is before Cue 2)
Hit Go (to start Cue 2 running for 55 minutes)
Hit Go again - Chanel 11 will come on in cue 3 and the 55 minute fade will continue since you didn't record a change into Cue 3 for channels 1-10)
Hit Go again - Channel 11 will go out and the 55 minute fade will continue...

I hope that's clearer-
-Todd

All this adding cues on top of cues is complicated for the thing that you are trying to do. If you are running playback only then just make a sub set the profile of the dimmer that controls the switch on /off of the light to be full at 10% and have the LD do a manual pull of the sub. 10% is about the same time as someone real flipping the switch.

tdrga said:

Correct - if your cues 3, 4 ,5 and 6 are just the light switching on and off, then only record those channels in the cues.
So if cue 2 is your 55 minute fade, lets say channels 1-10 going to zero, then put channels 1 thru 10 at zero and type:

• Record Cue 2 Time 55:00 Enter

Now you are sitting in the end state of Cue 2 - as if the 55 minute cue had finished.
Lets say your light switch channel is 11 and it comes on in Cue 3, off in Cue 4 and on in Cue 5 and off in Cue 6.
You can type:

• 11 Full Enter
• Record Cue 3+5 Time 0 Enter
• 11 Out
• Record Cue 4+6 Time 0 Enter

Now Go To Cue 1 (or whatever is before Cue 2)
Hit Go (to start Cue 2 running for 55 minutes)
Hit Go again - Chanel 11 will come on in cue 3 and the 55 minute fade will continue since you didn't record a change into Cue 3 for channels 1-10)
Hit Go again - Channel 11 will go out and the 55 minute fade will continue...

I hope that's clearer-
-Todd

Click to expand...

TA-DAH !!! IT WORKED. I took one of those Indiana Jones 'leap of faith' and just programmed it all into a few 'garbage cues', and then let it run.

Now what was so doggone hard about that ?????

Thank you, thank you.

ecpn said:

TA-DAH !!! IT WORKED. I took one of those Indiana Jones 'leaps of faith' and just programmed it all into a few 'garbage cues', and then let it run.

Now what was so doggone hard about that ?????

Thank you, thank you.

Click to expand...

@ecpn Oh you doubting Thomasina! How could you doubt us? RTFM (Read The Phuquing Manual) , NEVER stop asking questions, remember your errors along the way; live long and prosper! (Thanks for getting back to us; many don't.)
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
Edit: Changed the sex of doubting Thomas to Thomasina. (With apologies for my inatentiveness @ecpn )

Amiers said:

All this adding cues on top of cues is complicated for the thing that you are trying to do. If you are running playback only then just make a sub set the profile of the dimmer that controls the switch on /off of the light to be full at 10% and have the LD do a manual pull of the sub. 10% is about the same time as someone real flipping the switch.

View attachment 17931

Click to expand...

This isn't complicated. It's stupidly easy, and a key part of how move/fade consoles work. Don't work around the problem, understand it.

Just gonna add one thing that’s rather important in this scenario...

On ETC Eos line consoles (Element, Ion, Gio, Eos), the console needs to be in tracking mode or your cues must be recorded with tracking for this to work.

If you use the console normally in “cue only” mode, you can easily press “record cue 2 time 55:00 TRACK enter” instead of flipping to Tracking Mode in settings.

danTt said:

This isn't complicated. It's stupidly easy, and a key part of how move/fade consoles work. Don't work around the problem, understand it.

Click to expand...

A manual switch should be put on a sub Incase of timing mistakes.

Making a sub is no more of a work around then adding a cue in and swapping between cue and tracking mode within a cue stack.

It gets the job done just the same.

Jekyll said:

Just gonna add one thing that’s rather important in this scenario...

On ETC Eos line consoles (Element, Ion, Gio, Eos), the console needs to be in tracking mode or your cues must be recorded with tracking for this to work.

If you use the console normally in “cue only” mode, you can easily press “record cue 2 time 55:00 TRACK enter” instead of flipping to Tracking Mode in settings.

Click to expand...

In my examples above I did assume that the cues were being written in Tracking mode, so you are correct that syntax changes would need to be made if you were to record the cues in Cue Only mode.

However, the way the cues play back is not affected by the Tracking/Cue Only setting. The EOS line consoles are move fade consoles, not preset consoles. In the example above, running cues 3 through 6 while Cue 2 is fading will give you the same results in Tracking or Cue Only mode.
-Todd