A Congo?
- Thread starterRose03
- Start date
- Tags
- congo etc lighting desk
Congo's great, but it's discontinued and any used hardware out there is going to be of questionable value. ETC briefly had Cobalt available, a newer version of Congo, but they appear to have discontinued that in favor of Hog 4. Appears the Congo lineage has been killed off.
If you want to give Hog 4 a try, the latest version of Nomad will let you boot into both Eos and Hog.
There a ton of people though who use Eos both for busking and for theater -- just have to learn how to get the most of the console in those different applications.
If you want to give Hog 4 a try, the latest version of Nomad will let you boot into both Eos and Hog.
There a ton of people though who use Eos both for busking and for theater -- just have to learn how to get the most of the console in those different applications.
While still supported(Like all things ETC), I believe the whole Congo/Cobalt line is now discontinued. They became unnecessary once ETC acquired High End with the Hog series. (That is now on Nomad, like MNicolai mentions above).
We did run a Congo Jr. here for a while before our Ion- I liked it for all the corporate-style-event busking, and didn't find it that hard to learn at all. The syntax is different from every other board I used, but makes sense once you see what it's doing.
The Theatre crowd here never liked it- It's not a great tracking board. That may be something to consider.
You've got a Nomad already- Try them out. Hoglets look reasonably priced. I do wonder what the future of HogPC is with Nomad integrating the software already.
We did run a Congo Jr. here for a while before our Ion- I liked it for all the corporate-style-event busking, and didn't find it that hard to learn at all. The syntax is different from every other board I used, but makes sense once you see what it's doing.
The Theatre crowd here never liked it- It's not a great tracking board. That may be something to consider.
You've got a Nomad already- Try them out. Hoglets look reasonably priced. I do wonder what the future of HogPC is with Nomad integrating the software already.
BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
@BillConnerFASTC Really? A Registerd Practical Nurse for lighting consoles?? A lady named Anne at ETC is coming to mind.
@Amiers Did you know and not update me???
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
Reverse Polish Notation. Basically, enter a number then enter an action to do upon the number.
@sk8rsdad Thanks for the memory jog; I'm recalling when AVAB introduced the concept to theatrical lighting boards prior to ETC acquiring AVAB.
I believe Hewlett Packard used to refer to RPN as Reverse Polar Notation when they launched their line of ground breaking hand-held calculators back in the seventies or thereabouts.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
Well, AVAB was acquired by ETC many years ago and is the grandparent of the Cobalt. I have an AVAB 211 in a cupboard at my venue.
AFAIK, the P in RPN has always been "Polish" since it's a mathematical notation that derives it's name from the nationality of Jan Lucasiewicz. Polar notation (length + angle) is used in vector mathematics as an alternative to rectangular notation (x,y coordinates).
AFAIK, the P in RPN has always been "Polish" since it's a mathematical notation that derives it's name from the nationality of Jan Lucasiewicz. Polar notation (length + angle) is used in vector mathematics as an alternative to rectangular notation (x,y coordinates).
Jay Ashworth
Well-Known Member
Jeff Lelko
Active Member
Hi there. I wouldn't say that Congo/Cobalt is tricky to learn so much as it's different from what you might already be used to. I wrote a pretty detailed review of my Congo Kid here, so feel free to give that a read if you have time. I still use my Congo Kid regularly and have no regrets about buying it. If you get one yourself just be sure it runs Cobalt on Windows 7. I wouldn't consider any older versions of the board. That said, as already mentioned Cobalt is a dying breed. If you need a true busking rig I'd look at the Hog or MA lines of products. ChamSys also has a number of entry-level options that might be worth consideration too. Hope this helps!
OT: I still have my 37 year old HP-41C, and use it frequently. As long as I can get type N batteries, I'll keep using it. Happily, there are a few, nice HP-41C emulators for Android phones, too. last I checked, Hewlett Packard still makes RPN calculators, and once you use one for crunching numbers in formulas, you'll never want to use a normal calculator ever again.
@jonliles One nice thing about having an HP, anyone who asked to borrow it never bothered you again.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
Jay Ashworth
Well-Known Member
And I love that the first comment on that posting is
[ quotes entire 35inch story ]
Me too!
John Palmer
Well-Known Member
I am going to touch on points that have already been brought up to make a complete answer.
Congo/Cobalt has been sunset by ETC. They have committed to 4 more years of Cobalt software development, but the hardware is no longer in production. V8.2 was just released.
I am a beta tester for Cobalt software. I will take a Cobalt desk over any other desk especially if I am having to switch from busking to theatre style cued shows.
Congo had a couple of different versions. All of these may or may not have limits on output count (1024 or greater). A full size Congo (Congo Sr) was Window XPe. It is not able to be updated beyond V7.3.1. It is an old desk that's age makes it unreliable. Some Congo JR desks were Windows XPe some were Windows 7e. Windows XPe will be limited to v7.3.1, and age is a limiting factor as well. Windows 7e desks will be upgradable to current V8.2. The Windows 7e desks will have 2 network ports on the rear of the console. Congo JRs did not have integrated faders, so a fader wing is required to busk. Congo Kid's are Windows 7e, AFAIK, so can run V8.2 but are limited to 1024 outputs. Cobalt 10/20 are Windows 7e with a minimum of 4096 outputs. They have integrated touchscreens and faders.
IMO, I would not buy a SR or Congo JR XPe, unless they were dirt cheap. I would only buy a Congo JR 7e if it came with a fader wing. Congo Kid if I won't need more than 1024 addresses. Realize the you are investing in a niche console that will be getting even more obscure than it always has been. In that way, the investment into a Hoglet or EOS style console will serve you better longer.
You said that you have a Nomad. You can experiment by downloading the software from ETC. There is a Mac version of Cobalt software.
Now, about the software...
The Congo/Cobalt syntax does take some time to adapt to using. For example, {15 CH 50 @} is the syntax to bring channel 15 to 50%. As you get comfortable with the RPN, the keystrokes that you save start to speed up programming. This syntax is easier to use as a designer/programmer than as as designer talking to a programmer.
The Congo/Cobalt really excels as a busking console because the Master Playbacks (faders) are content controllers, and it is easy to load content to them and to on the fly change what the content loaded is. I can have a master with a group loaded to the master. The fader will control the intensity as it is recorded to the group. The master select button can be used to select the group for programming or can be changed to have a different purpose. If in the middle of the show, I need that master to control the manual application of a focus palette, all I have to do is type the number of the palette, press & hold Focus, and press the master select button. Now that master can control a focus palette. The master select will activate the focus palette for selected fixtures or fading in the master will give you a manual fade for selected fixtures to that palette. If you have the master set to Return to Previous, fading down the master will restore the selected fixtures to their previous focus.
If you are doing a theatre style show, the Main Playback operates just the way a theatre console should.
Congo/Cobalt is a preset style desk as opposed to the EOS which is a move fade desk. When you record a preset on the Congo/Cobalt, it records all of the intensity values not only what is changing. In this way, it is more like an Expression desk which was also a preset console. Like on the Expresssion, you have the capability to edit the tracking value of your looks. In fact, you can edit the tracking in numerous ways.
I hope that this will help you make your decision. If you have any questions, let me know.
Take care,
John
Congo/Cobalt has been sunset by ETC. They have committed to 4 more years of Cobalt software development, but the hardware is no longer in production. V8.2 was just released.
I am a beta tester for Cobalt software. I will take a Cobalt desk over any other desk especially if I am having to switch from busking to theatre style cued shows.
Congo had a couple of different versions. All of these may or may not have limits on output count (1024 or greater). A full size Congo (Congo Sr) was Window XPe. It is not able to be updated beyond V7.3.1. It is an old desk that's age makes it unreliable. Some Congo JR desks were Windows XPe some were Windows 7e. Windows XPe will be limited to v7.3.1, and age is a limiting factor as well. Windows 7e desks will be upgradable to current V8.2. The Windows 7e desks will have 2 network ports on the rear of the console. Congo JRs did not have integrated faders, so a fader wing is required to busk. Congo Kid's are Windows 7e, AFAIK, so can run V8.2 but are limited to 1024 outputs. Cobalt 10/20 are Windows 7e with a minimum of 4096 outputs. They have integrated touchscreens and faders.
IMO, I would not buy a SR or Congo JR XPe, unless they were dirt cheap. I would only buy a Congo JR 7e if it came with a fader wing. Congo Kid if I won't need more than 1024 addresses. Realize the you are investing in a niche console that will be getting even more obscure than it always has been. In that way, the investment into a Hoglet or EOS style console will serve you better longer.
You said that you have a Nomad. You can experiment by downloading the software from ETC. There is a Mac version of Cobalt software.
Now, about the software...
The Congo/Cobalt syntax does take some time to adapt to using. For example, {15 CH 50 @} is the syntax to bring channel 15 to 50%. As you get comfortable with the RPN, the keystrokes that you save start to speed up programming. This syntax is easier to use as a designer/programmer than as as designer talking to a programmer.
The Congo/Cobalt really excels as a busking console because the Master Playbacks (faders) are content controllers, and it is easy to load content to them and to on the fly change what the content loaded is. I can have a master with a group loaded to the master. The fader will control the intensity as it is recorded to the group. The master select button can be used to select the group for programming or can be changed to have a different purpose. If in the middle of the show, I need that master to control the manual application of a focus palette, all I have to do is type the number of the palette, press & hold Focus, and press the master select button. Now that master can control a focus palette. The master select will activate the focus palette for selected fixtures or fading in the master will give you a manual fade for selected fixtures to that palette. If you have the master set to Return to Previous, fading down the master will restore the selected fixtures to their previous focus.
If you are doing a theatre style show, the Main Playback operates just the way a theatre console should.
Congo/Cobalt is a preset style desk as opposed to the EOS which is a move fade desk. When you record a preset on the Congo/Cobalt, it records all of the intensity values not only what is changing. In this way, it is more like an Expression desk which was also a preset console. Like on the Expresssion, you have the capability to edit the tracking value of your looks. In fact, you can edit the tracking in numerous ways.
I hope that this will help you make your decision. If you have any questions, let me know.
Take care,
John
Rose03
Active Member
Thank you very much for that thorough response. I am going to look into the Hog 4 and perhaps GrandMA Dot2, the Congo seemed a good option as it is much more inexpensive.
