Turn mic on or not?

Robert F Jarvis

Well-Known Member
Here's the setting - a cast of 20 singing, mostly Ensemble who don't have headset wireless mics (we only have a few). However 6 or 7 are also character actors with dialogue fitted with headset mics. We have excellent choral mics above the stage. So here's my question; During a whole cast singing number should we turn OFF the character actors personal mics and let them mix with the rest of the un-mic'd ensemble or turn them on and have give their voices sort of an unfair advantage? I'm assuming that when one of the mic's guys has to sing ahead of the ensemble then we do turn on their mic. But otherwise, on or off?
 
Try and see how it sounds, though if you have the character mic's on I wouldn't run them very high at all. Just enough to add some presence and clarity of vocals to the PA without making any individual performers stand out in the overall mix.

If you leave all the character mic's off, you get more gain before feedback out of your hanging mic's and can drive them harder, but a lot depends on how well your hanging mic's are picking up your ensemble. If everyone is standing on the apron and the mic's are 20' up and behind them, then you're not going to get jack out of them and the character mic's are all you've really got to play with.

Of course your performers are another part of the equation. Some instinctively sing quieter when they have a mic on and need that extra boost or a just a swift kick in the bum by the director.
 
I usually do a mix of both. At least assuming those people have mics because they got roles and get mic in part because of an ability to sing. I'll keep them low and still blend with the chorus as a whole, leaning on them harder sometimes if I have some solid singers an the chorus is weak. You just don't want it obvious that 7 kids are close mic'd leaving the area mic'd kids sounding anemic.
 
If it is an ensemble of 20 singing, then having 6 or 7 stand out would be unfair. Still, Overheads tend to sound weak, so there is great temptation to bleed in some of the worn mics.
 
+1 ... there is no specific reason to turn the body mics off ... it will be up to you to experiment with a blend to sound the way you want (... and you may end up choosing to leave them off.)
 
I don't think giving certain performers body mics gives them an unfair advantage, and if the cast is getting that vibe, that someone with a mic is special, there's a culture problem that should be addressed.
The cast should be told, understand and truly know that no matter the costume, number of lines, if they're wearing a mic or stand in a spotlight that none of them are any better than the next and everyone is needed for the show to go on.

Performers wearing mics shouldn't stand out and be obvious that they're talking through a microphone while the rest are quiet mice during any part of the show.
 
@macsound,

My colleague did a high school gig recently where the director wanted all cast members mic'd. Many thousands of rental dollars later, they had their wish and the smoldering remnants of a pile of cash. Naturally a few mic's got killed in rehearsal and the director realized the hard way that not everyone on stage has a singing voice worth amplifying. Director decided to give the bad mic's to the bad singers to make them feel equal with everyone else. They just left those mic's muted the entire show.

Apparently the director wasn't so afraid of the students' reactions as he was their parents'.
 
You can also often pick up non-miced singers who are standing adjacent to a miced singer, especially if the mics are mounted on the temples ... so again worth experimenting as every production is different.
 
Lots of good advise there. I think that if we had one those real modern boards whereby we could pre cue mics things would be different. Our hanging mics are good and well placed so I'm going to start using just them. Turning body mics on and off as ensemble come and go will have me dancing around the board muting/unmuting and constantly changing levels. But as some said if the hangers are weak we'll have to go for body mics. But thanks all for an interesting discussion.
 
If you are running a musical, my preferred method of running FOH is line-by-line fading ... that means moving the faders up and down, not muting/unmuting ... it's a real chore but you can get things sounding pretty good that way ... and once you get the hang of it it gives you a great sense of control. You have eight usable fingers for fading, it is common to have several fingers on faders at a time. And if the board supports VCA/DCA grouping, this all gets easier.
 
If you are running a musical, my preferred method of running FOH is line-by-line fading ... that means moving the faders up and down, not muting/unmuting ... it's a real chore but you can get things sounding pretty good that way ... and once you get the hang of it it gives you a great sense of control. You have eight usable fingers for fading, it is common to have several fingers on faders at a time. And if the board supports VCA/DCA grouping, this all gets easier.

This is why I have that crazy look when the floor manager comes up to me in the middle of the show and asks me a question. I got hands on faders with a 24+ channel wireless mix, I'm firing off 100+ cues... now you want me to drop everything and...?? By the time I answer their random question I just lost my place in the script.

I agree, for wireless channels. I prefer fading as opposed to muting b/c sometimes an abrupt mute or unmute of a channel can be noticeable.

For overheads (and boundary mics), one of the problems is that overheads pick up HVAC noise and footsteps and ambient noise and occasionally I've even had noise from lighting gear, etc. Fading line by line for overheads (for me anyway) would be too noticeable. I would think at the beginning / ends of scenes and quiet spots would be good points to drop the overheads. The fade duration can be a little longer too. If you have a digital board - maybe a downward expander with a gentle release - 1500mS or so?? Just a thought.

For what it's worth I've never been 100% happy with any installation I've worked on where only hanging mics are used. There's always one thing or another, the distance is too far, or there are dead spots in coverage, or there is some delay-related "phasing" effect going on between hanging mic to hanging mic (or hanging mic to wireless, I've had that too).
 
I don't think giving certain performers body mics gives them an unfair advantage, and if the cast is getting that vibe, that someone with a mic is special, there's a culture problem that should be addressed.
The cast should be told, understand and truly know that no matter the costume, number of lines, if they're wearing a mic or stand in a spotlight that none of them are any better than the next and everyone is needed for the show to go on.

Performers wearing mics shouldn't stand out and be obvious that they're talking through a microphone while the rest are quiet mice during any part of the show.

I have to disagree with this, only because as a sound guy, it's not my job to direct culture. If the director has decided we aren't mic'ing the entire ensemble and and only key lines, I'll use what I have given to me to balance the sound, as Mike indicates in his post. Everyone is needed, but the reality is some people DO sing better than others and the reality is their mic's will be used.

My colleague did a high school gig recently where the director wanted all cast members mic'd. Many thousands of rental dollars later, they had their wish and the smoldering remnants of a pile of cash. Naturally a few mic's got killed in rehearsal and the director realized the hard way that not everyone on stage has a singing voice worth amplifying. Director decided to give the bad mic's to the bad singers to make them feel equal with everyone else. They just left those mic's muted the entire show.

+1 for this, as I mentioned above.

Overall, I agree with the blending technique. Use it to balance the best you can with overhead mics. Good advice above from all the posts.
 
Wow! a lot of good stuff here. Was interested to here the bit about using faders rather then mutes. I know folks who do this. On our console the numbers are below faders and mutes ABOVE! if you're over to the right of the board and want to make a quick change on a mic it is sometimes hard to reach over & find the right mute button. So this is my plan; The 5 leads will be to Center and muted/unmuted as normal. But, all the Ensemble will be removed from center and sent to a group. Their mutes will be off (great visible of who is ensemble). Then when they sing I raise the group. Now, this is interesting; If an Ensemble member comes up for a short lived character (none singing) part I will merely press their Center button and send them straight out (and bypassing the Ensemble group fade) carefully popping them off center when done. I'm using compressors to try and cut down on fader piano playing and reduce my work load. A darn good co-booth is not proving reliable so I'm taking the stance I will be doing all backing track, lead and ensemble cueing.
Final note, someone told us the monitor (when using chorals) were buzzing!) But reading some replies here I realized we have a pretty powerful A/C unit kicking on back stage! Hence the hum.
 
I take Mike's view: I'll usually put one or three leads into a chorus number in which they're not otherwise singing lead, especially first tenors or first sopranos. Not much; -20dB or so, just to where you could here it if you muted them in and out. In fact, during a rehearsal, you can do just that.
 
Their mutes will be off (great visible of who is ensemble). Then when they sing I raise the group. Now, this is interesting; If an Ensemble member comes up for a short lived character (none singing) part I will merely press their Center button and send them straight out (and bypassing the Ensemble group fade) carefully popping them off center when done.

Be careful you don't get double bussing depending on the level of the group and how the group is routed to the mains. Otherwise, a solid technique to solve the problem. Is the intent to remove them from the Ensemble "group" (you mention bypass)?
 
Wow! a lot of good stuff here. Was interested to here the bit about using faders rather then mutes. I know folks who do this. On our console the numbers are below faders and mutes ABOVE! if you're over to the right of the board and want to make a quick change on a mic it is sometimes hard to reach over & find the right mute button. So this is my plan; The 5 leads will be to Center and muted/unmuted as normal. But, all the Ensemble will be removed from center and sent to a group. Their mutes will be off (great visible of who is ensemble). Then when they sing I raise the group. Now, this is interesting; If an Ensemble member comes up for a short lived character (none singing) part I will merely press their Center button and send them straight out (and bypassing the Ensemble group fade) carefully popping them off center when done. I'm using compressors to try and cut down on fader piano playing and reduce my work load. A darn good co-booth is not proving reliable so I'm taking the stance I will be doing all backing track, lead and ensemble cueing.
Final note, someone told us the monitor (when using chorals) were buzzing!) But reading some replies here I realized we have a pretty powerful A/C unit kicking on back stage! Hence the hum.
While yes that works, in general, I think you are over thinking this. The reality is a large group of people singing without mics can easily overwhelm the leads with mics. They might be a little hot, but I rarely find it a problem that you can't tweak quickly. As was said above, assuming your leads have good voices, having them a little hot in the mix probably isn't that big of a deal. I find that as you work a show you get in a groove and get very good at knowing exactly where the correct fader is at.
 
While yes that works, in general, I think you are over thinking this. The reality is a large group of people singing without mics can easily overwhelm the leads with mics. They might be a little hit, but I rarely find it a problem that you can't tweak quickly. And as was said above, assuming your leads have good voices, having them a little hit in the mix probably isn't that big of a deal. I fibd that as you work a show you get very good at knowing exactly where the right fader is at.

And add to that - the mics pick up ALL the sound around them. The mics on a lead performers will also pick up (to varying degrees) the ensemble singers near the lead. For a show with some actors on mic and others singing acoustically I tend to use my area mics to establish a general sound and then mix in the leads for additional pickup or to put some "better voices" just on top of the area mic levels... trying to maintain the ensemble feel.
 
And add to that - the mics pick up ALL the sound around them. The mics on a lead performers will also pick up (to varying degrees) the ensemble singers near the lead. For a show with some actors on mic and others singing acoustically I tend to use my area mics to establish a general sound and then mix in the leads for additional pickup or to put some "better voices" just on top of the area mic levels... trying to maintain the ensemble feel.
Yep,exactly what I do. When choosing who gets mics, we run through the leads and then ask the musical director for the best, soprano, alto, tenor, and bass in the company, and give them mics to be able to fill things out.
 
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I have to disagree with this, only because as a sound guy, it's not my job to direct culture. If the director has decided we aren't mic'ing the entire ensemble and and only key lines, I'll use what I have given to me to balance the sound, as Mike indicates in his post. Everyone is needed, but the reality is some people DO sing better than others and the reality is their mic's will be used.
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I think we're saying the same thing. Just because one actor has a microphone shouldn't be a signal to everyone else that they're special.
 

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