Dimmable PAR38 250 Watt replacement?

gafftaper

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I have four PAR cans that are installed in this lovely decorative wooden piece that curves out from my proscenium. They are the only down light on the apron and so I need them to be not just pretty but also functional for shows. I'm still able to easily get 250 watt PAR 38's from Philips that are 3,100 lumens. This is great for now, but we all know that isn't going to last too much longer. I can't just swap in any old LED lamp as it will be VERY obvious if they blink when they dim. Plus most of the off the shelf ones are not anywhere near 3,000 lumens. Canto makes a good option but they are something like $750 each. Has anyone seen any options that will not break my budget?
 
Found a sylvania on 1000bulbs.com but the 250w equivalent was only 2500 lumens.

It's going to be a long ride of having to look at specs to see if a 42" tv is actually 42" or 42" class.
 
Sounds like a led driver retrofit is in order. Install once and never look back.
 
0.1% lumen which looks like about 1% to human eye - but conversion is hard to justify for dollars. And that's premium LED fixtures with drivers and data - NOT mains dimming. Which are not inexpensive. I'd look at seeing if an ETC D22 in tungsten would fit; or an Incito 4" down light - but either is going to be in the $1500 range by time all is done.

The only conversion I usually recommend is houselights that can't be reached without scaffolds and ladders. Just no money to save in infrastructure to pay for the conversion to LED, like there is in new.

And that incandescent beautiful smooth absolutely stepless fade to full off, and that little red shift at the end, it is so pretty.
 
Hey Gaff!
I'm not sure it's exactly what you're looking for, but we make a Mains Dimming mini-Fresnel called the FTD-55WW. The lumens at Wide Zoom (about a 60deg field angle) are roughly 2250, it zooms down to about 20°, though (as with all fresnels), it is less efficient (lumens per watt) at the tighter angles. I'm betting you'd want 3 or 4 instead of your 2 existing units... Street price is around $350 each.
You'd want to yank the track adaptor off, and put on your connector of choice... but I think you're well up to the task (LOL).

The Larger FD-105ww (6", 750w Fresnel equivalent) would be an easy 1-for-1 swap, but I agree that it is likely a little more money than you want to spend, at just over a grand each.

The FTD-55 is only controllable with a dimmer, whereas The FD-105 is controlled either via dimmer, or DMX should you ever decide to run DMX up there (we have a patented sensing system which auto-magically selects the proper control setting).

Call me if you want to know more.
 
I’m in the same boat with 6 recessed architectural fixtures using the PAR38 250 flood. I’m just hoping to buy as many incandescent as the budget allows. I go thru maybe 2-3 per year, so 2 dozen will see me thru to retirement, LOL. It’s a huge headache to swap out the fixture and I’ll leave that to my replacement.
 
When I was a kid, I read a letter to "Say, Smokey!", or some such automotive column, where a lady'd bought a new car and the engine was eating a quart a month of oil, and she went to the dealer and told him she wanted a replacement engine, or a new, new car.

His solution?

He gave her a pallet of decent quality motor oil in the proper spec, for free.

Hey; it was the useful life of the car... Cost him a couple hundred bucks. Instead of $1000, or $4000.
 
The professionals here are going to flay me for this, but I have had great success with some knock-off Chinese products. In particular, I bought a bunch of Coidak CO804 pars a while back, at about US$50 each. They produce about as much light as a 350W incandescent does, are real RGBW, pull tiny amounts of power, run cool, and are almost noiseless. They are in thin plastic housings, so they won't take a beating. But, at that price, you can buy several spares (not that I've ever needed to; they have held up fine with a little extra TLC).

Alas, Coidak isn't currently making them. A bit of Googling indicates that (like a lot of Chinese electronics) you can get the same instrument under a different name now. Here are two links to the same device, with new names and slight cosmetic differences:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0774LF1VF/?tag=controlbooth-20

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00YOWGTMS/?tag=controlbooth-20

Here's a longer review I wrote after using them for a couple of shows:

Everyone told me not to "waste" my money on this kind of light, but I stupidly ignored their advice and, well, I guess I got lucky. These instruments were every bit as good as "name" brand choices that cost up to ten times as much. They are light, bright, and quiet. They stay cool to the touch at full intensity. While there is a bit of a discrete cut-off at the low end, when you go from intensity 1 to intensity 0, it is actually much less of a change than I see in those "name" brands.

Among the warnings I got were these: they fail frequently. Well, not yet, and I've used them for a couple of shows. Not thousands of hours, but over a hundred each. No failures. If that does worry you, though, buy a spare. At this price, it's still a terrific deal.

Another warning: They won't be UL or CE approved. Well, it turns out that UL approval is not all that common for theatrical lights, and that this light is CE approved. (People warned me also that "CE" is often faked, and one can easily verify this by looking at the "CE" identifiers on other products. I did as much research as I could and came to the conclusion that the vendor is asserting these light genuinely meet the CE standard. As I understand it, that is reported by all who say so on the honor system, so trust is at your discretion, industry-wide.) Coidak does actually list some of their other products in the UL database, so they do meet that level when they want to. But, again, UL listing is not universal in theater lights.

Another warning: They will have bad color. Well, they are a bit red/blue at 100% on all LEDs, but they are consistent from one instrument to the next, and my experience has been that color varies noticeably from one manufacturer to another. Matching colors among lights is just part of the game, no matter who makes yours. With a bit of tweaking, I was able to get all the colors (including real white, and a warm "amber" white) I wanted.

The one complaint I have about these lights is that they have no pass-through power socket. Each one has a permanently attached three-prong AC plug.. Some lights use a twist-and-lock power cord that connects to an "in" side to power the light, and that can be connected to an "out" socket on the same light to pass power along to the next one. Since lights like these are low power (my Kill-A-Watt says these pull just under half an amp at full intensity), you can run quite a few on one circuit. The twisting plugs have the advantage that you can't easily shock yourself with them. Three-prong plugs make that easy, particularly if you are reaching into some blind space in the hope of inserting one (a maddeningly common activity in low-budget theater). But, the plus side is that you can plug these into any three-hole outlet. The twisting cable requires an adapter.

All-in-all, I'd knock off a quarter-star for the lack of a power pass-through. But, to the nearest whole star, that's five out of five, so that's my score.

Now, again, expect people to say this is not the way to go. Most folks here have a lot more experience than I do (I'm just "the lighting guy" for a couple of community theater companies in my county), so you should listen to them. But if you are really tight for money (like the community theater companies in my county), and you can treat your equipment gently, I can say these lights have been a real boon for me.
 
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Well, for me, the real problem with these is color fringing unless they're hung high enough that you start to lose brightness. The ones with self-mixing LED engines are a bit more money, but much less prone to that problem...
 
Well, for me, the real problem with these is color fringing unless they're hung high enough that you start to lose brightness. The ones with self-mixing LED engines are a bit more money, but much less prone to that problem...

Is that more common with the instruments using seven (or some other low number of) LEDs, Jay? Inside a couple of feet, with mine, you can see the colors separate, but anything over a yard and they blend pretty well. The Coidaks (or whatever they are called now) have 54 LEDs in them (12 red, 18 green, 18 blue, 6 white ), arrayed over a ten-inch diameter face. Maybe that helps?

We used these for a run of "Man of La Mancha." Director wanted a fire pit in the dungeon. We put a light in the pit prop (looked like a well, about 18" high), aiming up. Then we put one of those thin, white, translucent shopping bags you get at Target over it, as a diffuser. Drove it with two simultaneous HTP chases, one with 37 pseudo-random steps in it, the other with 53 steps, mixing red, green, a bit of white, and a rare blue. As 37 and 53 are prime numbers, the overall sequence never repeats until after it runs through 1961 steps. You would have sworn you were seeing the glow of a flickering flame, I kid you not. The plastic bag worried me at first, but even putting my hand inside it I couldn't detect any increase in air temperature.

Now, here's the part that really surprised me: when you went up to the prop and looked into the well, you could clearly see individual spots of color, as the bag was only about a foot in diameter. But it so thoroughly scattered the light that the sides of the well and the wall behind it (which is what the audience saw) always showed a single-color wash. When you got close and saw both, it was almost impossible to believe that the light source and the end effect could be related, but it worked.

Everything about LEDs continues to amaze me.
 
The professionals here are going to flay me for this, but I have had great success with some knock-off Chinese products. In particular, I bought a bunch of Coidak CO804 pars a while back, at about US$50 each. They produce about as much light as a 350W incandescent does, are real RGBW, pull tiny amounts of power, run cool, and are almost noiseless. They are in thin plastic housings, so they won't take a beating. But, at that price, you can buy several spares (not that I've ever needed to; they have held up fine with a little extra TLC).

Alas, Coidak isn't currently making them. A bit of Googling indicates that (like a lot of Chinese electronics) you can get the same instrument under a different name now. Here are two links to the same device, with new names and slight cosmetic differences:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0774LF1VF/?tag=controlbooth-20

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00YOWGTMS/?tag=controlbooth-20

Here's a longer review I wrote after using them for a couple of shows:



Now, again, expect people to say this is not the way to go. Most folks here have a lot more experience than I do (I'm just "the lighting guy" for a couple of community theater companies in my county), so you should listen to them. But if you are really tight for money (like the community theater companies in my county), and you can treat your equipment gently, I can say these lights have been a real boon for me.


Gotta love the most excellent product description on that 2nd Amazon link ...
 

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