Hey ETC, Don't kick us when we are down

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I have a XP based Element that we have owned since 2014. I was planning on sending the console out over the summer of 2020 when we are slow to do the windows 7 update so the console can continue to be rider friendly. Well, covid, lockdown, furlough for 420 days, building locked solid, no cash flow or even someone to run a PO for the upgrade let along staff to pull the desk and ship... So, came back on payroll yesterday for the first time since March 12th 2020 to start get things operating again. Running through my over a year old to-do list and came across this item. Emailed my local ETC dealer to get a quote on the update. Was told "ETC put the brakes on any more upgrades, no exceptions".

So, the company that is supposed to be the end all be all of long term support just end of lifed my 7 year old console during a full shut down of the entertainment industry. When we all left version 3.0 wasn't even out. So now, I have a choice to either buy a new console to hit riders or have to verify in every single advance that 3.0 is not needed. I'm beyond annoyed by this move. If I have to replace the console we will not be going with another ETC desk. I'm fine with the deciding to stop the upgrade process, but doing while nearly every single performance venue in the country is mouthballed is beyond crazy plus the time the 3.0 update came out of the time this program was killed was 6 months. Come on ETC, keep this program going until after the industry gets back on its feet.
 
From what I understand, it was a matter of not being able to get the replacement motherboards anymore. And their last two announcements about the Element Win 7 upgrade had the caveat of "while supplies last"
 
okay okay okay... let's pump the brakes. Your frustration not withheld the pandemic is not ETC's fault. They continued supporting the parts of the industry that were able to continue to operate, while also creating an immense amount of opportunity for those stuck with nothing more to dim than a ghostlight. 7 years is a "good" life for a console. No reason you can't keep it as a backup. No reason you can't look at an upgrade. SO MUCH of the industry has changed vastly over 7 years and to hold ETC back to technology that is a decade old is arguably as frustrating for them as it is INCONVENIENT for you. I'd be curious what issues you run into with riders for ditching the EOS platform all together, maybe none, maybe now you're stuck renting an EOS console because you threw a fit and got rid of it. Is ETC perfect? No. I don't believe any company should be. Growth, development and success come from opportunity. Perfection is finite...

That being said, maybe now is your chance to fly high with Hog and bring a whole new world to your space. 🤣
 
From what I understand, it was a matter of not being able to get the replacement motherboards anymore. And their last two announcements about the Element Win 7 upgrade had the caveat of "while supplies last"

Ya, I get the supply side issue, however the fact that they dropped the 3.0 update then killed off the upgrade path within 6 months of each other is rather crazy. There was no way in 2019 I would have been able to get the funding to do the upgrade without a legit reason why, and a mythical update a year or more away would not have worked. So, they gave us the justification, then pulled the ability for us to do the update... all while the live events industry was offline.
 
okay okay okay... let's pump the brakes. Your frustration not withheld the pandemic is not ETC's fault. They continued supporting the parts of the industry that were able to continue to operate, while also creating an immense amount of opportunity for those stuck with nothing more to dim than a ghostlight. 7 years is a "good" life for a console. No reason you can't keep it as a backup. No reason you can't look at an upgrade. SO MUCH of the industry has changed vastly over 7 years and to hold ETC back to technology that is a decade old is arguably as frustrating for them as it is INCONVENIENT for you. I'd be curious what issues you run into with riders for ditching the EOS platform all together, maybe none, maybe now you're stuck renting an EOS console because you threw a fit and got rid of it. Is ETC perfect? No. I don't believe any company should be. Growth, development and success come from opportunity. Perfection is finite...

That being said, maybe now is your chance to fly high with Hog and bring a whole new world to your space. 🤣

ETC has always sold themselves on long term support of everything. This is the company that bought a pallet of 3.5" floppy's to keep Expression consoles going. I guess that isn't the case anymore.
 
ETC has always sold themselves on long term support of everything. This is the company that bought a pallet of 3.5" floppy's to keep Expression consoles going. I guess that isn't the case anymore.

They'll continue to support your hardware as long as they're able. You missed the window for a well-announced upgrade to continue running the latest software - it sucks that it happened because of the pandemic, but ETC did extend the window for upgrades in response to the pandemic, I can't imagine thinking they should be obligated to continue offering the upgrade program in perpetuity - it was already an example of hardware support going above and beyond to keep older consoles running well into the future.
 
Sorry, I'm really not picking up what you're putting down. Yeah, you can't upgrade to 3.0, but your desk is still fully functional. How many years did you get out of that desk? Seems like an incredible ROI to me.

You can still call and get support, and you can get fixture library updates. Not sure how this constitutes a lack of support, as your day to day operations aren't changing.

It felt like in every demo I saw of Augment3d, ETC was super clear about needing 3.0 for A3d, that 3.0 needed Windows 7, and that XP consoles were going to be left behind.
 
Sorry, I'm really not picking up what you're putting down. Yeah, you can't upgrade to 3.0, but your desk is still fully functional. How many years did you get out of that desk? Seems like an incredible ROI to me.

You can still call and get support, and you can get fixture library updates. Not sure how this constitutes a lack of support, as your day to day operations aren't changing.

It felt like in every demo I saw of Augment3d, ETC was super clear about needing 3.0 for A3d, that 3.0 needed Windows 7, and that XP consoles were going to be left behind.

Its more to do with timing. Yes, I knew we'd have to do this update. I had it scheduled... then all hell broke loose. We aren't going to be the only ones stuck here. I was very surprised to see the program killed during a time when most people aren't thinking about their gear or even has access to it.
 
I was very surprised to see the program killed during a time when most people aren't thinking about their gear or even has access to it.
I don't think ETC willingly killed the program, from posts on the forum and elsewhere it seems like it had to do with parts availability. Probably made worse due to the pandemic.
 
As one of the main ‘deciders’ on finally ending the ETC Win7 upgrade program I feel qualified to respond despite many of my employees knowing that I only play at understanding how the real world of productions works these days.

The Win7 upgrade program was put into place to help ease the pain for cutometers who had recently purchased a console and then had it outdated due to new hardware being released by ETC. The program started in early/mid 2014 and was meant to run for 2-3 years. The program was popular and ETC had a ready supply of needed parts, so we extended the program multiple times. We even announced the end of the program a couple times only to reverse course and extend.

The last announced end date was the end of the year 2019. Several passionate customers called and said they still wanted to do the upgrade but needed to get to the budget year for 2020. So ETC extended to the end of March 2020. Then.....pandemic! We extended to end of 2020. When the end of 2020 came around, we realized that the overall availability of parts was getting somewhat low. ETC Services concern was that we wanted to be able to fix broken consoles for many years to come so we needed to ‘hold on to’ enough Win7 upgrade parts for long term repair (both pre and post Win7). The end of the Win7 upgrades was then put into place and that is where we are now, and it is done.

ETC is committed to long term phone support and repair of all our equipment. The end of this program was driven by the desire to help keep consoles up and running in the future for those customers who can only buy new ones every 10-15 years.

Kindest regards

Mike Meskill

Global Technical Service Manager

ETC
 
Footer, I was (am) in pretty the same position you are, as my privately-owned console isn't able to be upgraded anymore either. I made this choice pre-pandemic, balancing the cost of upgrading versus the cost of purchasing a new console, as well as renting one in as needed.

Augment3d's pretty cool and all (and the Ion I have at work was upgraded, so I can access it if needed). I haven't yet seen any other updates to the general console software that make me wish I had upgraded my old Ion Classic. It's still entirely useful for its primary purpose -- designing and busking for a lot of school concerts and dance recitals, where Augment3d features aren't really going to come into play. I'm sure there'll be a point, down the line, where the software will have advanced far enough that using the Ion feels like that time I had to work on a MicroVision again -- you don't realize how handy some features are until you can't use them anymore -- and then I'll bite the bullet and buy an Ion Xe ... or an Ion 3.0, if I wait long enough. ;)
 
As one of the main ‘deciders’ on finally ending the ETC Win7 upgrade program I feel qualified to respond despite many of my employees knowing that I only play at understanding how the real world of productions works these days.

The Win7 upgrade program was put into place to help ease the pain for cutometers who had recently purchased a console and then had it outdated due to new hardware being released by ETC. The program started in early/mid 2014 and was meant to run for 2-3 years. The program was popular and ETC had a ready supply of needed parts, so we extended the program multiple times. We even announced the end of the program a couple times only to reverse course and extend.

The last announced end date was the end of the year 2019. Several passionate customers called and said they still wanted to do the upgrade but needed to get to the budget year for 2020. So ETC extended to the end of March 2020. Then.....pandemic! We extended to end of 2020. When the end of 2020 came around, we realized that the overall availability of parts was getting somewhat low. ETC Services concern was that we wanted to be able to fix broken consoles for many years to come so we needed to ‘hold on to’ enough Win7 upgrade parts for long term repair (both pre and post Win7). The end of the Win7 upgrades was then put into place and that is where we are now, and it is done.

ETC is committed to long term phone support and repair of all our equipment. The end of this program was driven by the desire to help keep consoles up and running in the future for those customers who can only buy new ones every 10-15 years.

Kindest regards

Mike Meskill

Global Technical Service Manager

ETC

Now entering the 14° Source4 Spotlight from Middleton, WI ...... MIKE MESKILL!!!!!!!!

What's the lighting equivalent of a mic drop?... gel frame frisbee?
 
20? That's all? Isn't there a dollars to points conversion on this game?!
 
Our board was purchased in 2012, so I understand your frustration, but after 4 years of trying to get upgraded I just had to accept that it wasn't going to happen.

When I got a quote for the Win7 upgrade back in 2019 it was a bit over $2,000. You could cobble together a heck of a nomad set up with that these days...

In other news, because my higher ups said no to the upgrade at that time.... 1.5 years later and the new ION should be here by the end of the month :dance:

Also, I believe the lighting mic drop equivalent is a zero second fade to black (preferably with a single top light above me that fades out last). A dropped frame is a lap around the aud and one pushup for every foot the frame fell. A thrown frame is an invitation to exit the facility. (a deliberately dropped mic will receive an invoice to replace).
 
Agreed. Someone has to pay to repair that dropped mic. Unfortunately, the damage is not always apparent at first, as it would be if you dropped a Leko.
 

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