Light Board, and IT Network issues

Hello folks,

I currently have an old ETC Ion Light board connected to DMX gateways.

I want to be able to put a wireless router on the private network so I can use the android app and the nomad mirror feature.
IT is complaining that the Wifi interferes with the existing network and wants it on their network.

The Problem is
1) That the Ion needs to be set up as a DHCP server so its throwing rogue IP addresses
2) The cross chatter on the network makes it almost impossible to connect to a PC nomad
3) Ion run on XP which they say they don't want on there server for security reasons.

IT further said that I should get a Light board that runs on Windows 10, but I don't think that exists, and frankly I rather have an Ion as it fits my needs best.

any one have any suggestions?

IF possible, try and explain to your IT that the console should never be on a network that sees the internet, and that the console and your devices, ea. android app, only want to see each other...

There are several threads on here taking about this very subject, print some of them out and show them to IT explaining the reasoning you have to be on your own private network...

Hope this helps


Sean...

The actual problem is that IT does not understand YOUR technology. Scarrgo is correct... your light network does not want to see any internet facing devices. The Ions embedded XP security doesn't matter when it is on a private network. There will be NO "cross chatter" if your system is on its own isolated network, and the Ion being the DHCP server will not effect them one whit when it is on its own isolated network.

What we have here is a failure to communicate.

Make it hard on them. Say "Fine, I can be on your network, but I need my own VLAN".

We had that fun with our IT folks several years ago. It took a while for them to understand but what helped was making them come into the space to see how we were using our own infrastructure for the three different networks we were using.

LightFactory is a very capable Windows-based lighting controller that is happy with Win10, however I don't think switching over to it when you have a perfectly serviceable Ion makes sense in this case.

The Ion itself is a DHCP server? Can that functionality be disabled? Can you set it as a static IP? I have my lighting computer on it's own network with a couple of nodes and it's set up with APIPA since I don't have a device capable of being a DHCP server on that network. I ended up just setting each device with a static IP, so long as they're in the same subnet, they don't really care what they are.

Ideally you want your own switches for your lighting gear. Outside of firmware updates, they don't need to talk to the outside. I agree that a good VLAN would be a possible workaround, but not ideal.

Indeed the Ion is acting as a DHCP server, and it can be turned off and the DMX gateways set to static, but in order to connect my phone or other laptops I would need to have a DHCP server to give Ip addresses.... Yes I could static IP my phone, tablets and spare computers, but that would be terrible going back and forth.

Vlan sounds like most folks suggestion, I know enough that I know I don't know much about Vlans. It was suggested that there are other posts about setting it up, but I will say I'm not sure I know what I would be looking up.

As I've been reading and experiencing "Cross Chatter"
If there is a lot of devices on the network it could slow initial connection to the nomad.
So Anytime I try to connect Nomad PC to Ion Console while on their network it takes about 20 minutes of failed attempts

Setup of the VLAN will involve modifying the switch config. If you go that route, you will need to involve your IT department

If, instead of the Ion as DHCP, you have a separate DHCP server on the network, set it to always give the same reserved addresses to things such as the Ion, the gateways, tablet/phone/laptop and so on. That way you get all the advantages of fixed IPs without the disadvantages; things that don't care about their IP get which ever address is available when they ask for one, but your "well-known" devices always get the same address when they ask for one,

I've been following your post on the ETC forum as well and will reiterate here that while the console can serve as a DHCP host it doesn't have to... you can remove your IT department all together, though there are some benefits to working with them. I'm concerned about your "consultant" that couldn't get your system to work, especially given your location listed as DC.... for an example my main system has a few hundred nodes all static addressed with all sorts of components and remotes and consoles in it so... I have a strong suspicion that something is not set up correctly.

You're at a crossroads... you can work with your IT department and help them understand your technology, or get them in contact with ETC Technical Service that can translate the layer 3 network jargon for you.... or you can setup your own network that can work just fine DHCP or not with the proper configuration...

Although I wonder with a Vlan, if I can still use the existing Wifi of IT network... I feel like that wouldnt work, but would a Vlan create a new SSID that only I had the password for? (I am not well versed on Vlan)

MRW Lights -
1) Yeah I know you can turn off the DHCP on the Ion, but it didn't work on their network when we did. Gateways would not connect.
2) The Consultants were a "3 letter big name" that when I mentioned to another IT friend they just laughed
3) I am sure its an easy fix as most people don't seem to have this problem, but I think I have one additional requirement that is making this difficult
4) I'm trying to explain to IT, and they are being helpful, but its uphill. Next a Private Network would be perfect for me. ETC tech is the last set.

Requirements:
- Must connect Ion board, gateways, and Nomad on network (As close as possible)
- Must have Wifi access
- Must not have internet access
- If on IT server must not have DHCP on Ion (Which can be turned off, I know, but simply won't connect to gateways)
- >>> If on IT server MUST be Windows 10 Embedded (Ion is Xp or Ion XE is win7)
- If on Private network, must not interfere with current Wifi (We are try to change the channel to reduce inference)

NeroCaesar said:

Yeah I know you can turn off the DHCP on the Ion, but it didn't work on their network when we did. Gateways would not connect.

Click to expand...

If you had DHCP on and were connected to your site network, it would absolutely conflict with the site DHCP server and causes a lot of errors and dropouts as they would try and create competing subnets. I would wager that when you deactivated the Ion DHCP, the gateways were still holding onto their IP leases from Ion DHCP, but your Ion was now on the site subnet and therefore unable to communicate. That's my guess. You could try turning off DHCP and then power cycling everything to see if they'd connect. The intermittent connectivity issues sound like subnet mismatches. You will want all of your lighting hardware to have the same subnet prefix, typically something like 192.168.1.XXX.

As far as your WiFi connection- you will need some kind of access point or WiFi router. The cheapest and easiest is to just buy a consumer Wifi router. They usually come with their own DHCP server and a small switch, all integrated into the same package. This is probably where your IT people are unhappy about the rogue wireless signal. However, modern WiFi routers will automatically change to a channel to avoid causing interference. It's not as big of a problem as it used to be, unless you're working solely on a B/G/N type network.

StradivariusBone said:

If you had DHCP on and were connected to your site network, it would absolutely conflict with the site DHCP server and causes a lot of errors and dropouts as they would try and create competing subnets. I would wager that when you deactivated the Ion DHCP, the gateways were still holding onto their IP leases

Click to expand...

hmmm, thinking about it I am unsure if we reset the gateways when we turned off the DHCP on the Ion...

Currently, I talked them into getting a wifi router/Ap and an unmanaged router on a private network (Which is fine and works) but they want it on their network eventually

NeroCaesar said:

If on IT server MUST be Windows 10 Embedded (Ion is Xp or Ion XE is win7)

Click to expand...

ETC will not be moving all of their products (and customers) to Windows 10 embedded just because your IT department "requires" it. Your IT department is going to have to grant a variance.

sk8rsdad said:

ETC will not be moving all of their products (and customers) to Windows 10 embedded just because your IT department "requires" it. Your IT department is going to have to grant a variance.

Click to expand...

Ha! Yeah I figured that much.

Your IT department is Bullshipping you on the interference issue. Most consumer grade routers can be set up to channel hop, or to stick to a specific channel as need be. Ask them what channel they want you to stick to. and set up your own router and sysid, not connected at all to their backbone. Best would have been to just do it, and only power it up when the board is on.. Name the sysid Joe's phone.. or better yet set it to not broadcast the sysid, and they would have never even noticed it was there.

I will almost guarandamntee you that the existing wifi acess points are channel hopping.
If their equipment is so prone to interference, do the thought experiment of how many cell phones in a venue come in with their tethering/hostpots "live" You can check with your phone next time the place is full.. you are bound to see "John's phone" "sally's phone" etc acting as a hotspot.. and sharing that precious wifi channel stack. No one who carries a phone into the facility has to check with IT first before they turn on their wifi hotpot.. I call BS.. I call turf war.

And today's trivia.. Actress Heddy Lamar invented frequency hopping in WWII and it was used to keep guided torpedos from being jammed by the enemy. Don't believe me.. go look it up... Theater has dibs on frequency hopping.. Put that in your IT pipe and smoke it.

You should absolutely be on a separate network unconnected to the normal IT network. The Ion, and likely other devices you are using, are not capable of being secured in the year 2021. The only solution is a segregated network, both for you and for them. They should be nervous about having XP on their network, and you should be nervous about getting hit by malware coming in from devices on their network or from the internet at large. Your Ion is pretty much defenseless at this point.

Ok, so what do we do to fix this? We configure your WiFi and theirs so they don’t conflict. First question is are they using both 2.4 and 5 GHz? If not, use the other one. If so, then move on to de-conflicting the channels as mentioned above.

Following on the ETC Forums as well.
You can set your gateways to be static IP as well. I have on mine because I use them only in one facility. A good static IP scheme is easy and prevents your system from getting exploited.
ETC's Concert software will allow you to set the IPs on your gateways. Conveniently, it is included in the shell of your Ion.
Take care,
John

There seems to be some confusion here about the Ion obtaining an IP address automatically, from a DHCP server, versus it acting as the DHCP server. It needs to get an IP address from somewhere, whether it be from a DHCP server, or you set manually as a static IP.