Mixers/Consoles Yamaha CL1 / CL5 question

MaikW

Member
Hi readers,

We're basically in the middle of planing on renovating the whole technical departements of our theater.
At the moment, we're planing on new sound desks to replace our "old faithful" DM1000 and DM2000 desks.

The DM1000 is setup at the lobby for smaller theater plays, lectures, speaches, whatever.
The DM2000 is at our main stages FoH position.
We occasionally do "one night" shows in other theaters all over Germany. For these trips we have another DM2000 in a flight case.

We'd like to stay with Yamaha's product lines, as we only had good experiences with these desks.
So we're thinking about a CL5 to replace the DM2000.

And a CL1 to replace the DM1000.
Besides being able to replace the CL5 in case of a failure or to have a (basically) functional identical possibility to get a (physically) smaller desk for the "out of town" occasions.

So for my questions:
- besides the differences of the desks, how complicated is it to get the setups from the CL5 to the CL1?
Is it just a "copy and paste" thing with Yamaha's "Console File Converter" app or do we have to adjust some details?

Thanks for your thoughts!

Regards...
...Maik
 
Hi readers,

We're basically in the middle of planing on renovating the whole technical departements of our theater.
At the moment, we're planing on new sound desks to replace our "old faithful" DM1000 and DM2000 desks.

The DM1000 is setup at the lobby for smaller theater plays, lectures, speaches, whatever.
The DM2000 is at our main stages FoH position.
We occasionally do "one night" shows in other theaters all over Germany. For these trips we have another DM2000 in a flight case.

We'd like to stay with Yamaha's product lines, as we only had good experiences with these desks.
So we're thinking about a CL5 to replace the DM2000.

And a CL1 to replace the DM1000.
Besides being able to replace the CL5 in case of a failure or to have a (basically) functional identical possibility to get a (physically) smaller desk for the "out of town" occasions.

So for my questions:
- besides the differences of the desks, how complicated is it to get the setups from the CL5 to the CL1?
Is it just a "copy and paste" thing with Yamaha's "Console File Converter" app or do we have to adjust some details?

Thanks for your thoughts!

Regards...
...Maik
IIRC, the differences between the CL-1 and CL-5 are the control surface size and number of physical controllers. Under the hood (or bonnet, for our UK readers) the software is functionally the same. A "G" search revealed this gem: "The explanations in this reference manual will use the CL5. • In the case of the CL3/CL1, some screens will not show channels and faders that do not exist on those models."

Moving "down" looks potentially iffy. Moving "up" looks easy. Any show file that will run/operate on the CL-1 will be fine on the CL-5.
 
Moving up is easy, moving down just stay within the input channel count of the smallest desk and you're all good. It's almost painless compared to the nightmare process of converting files between DiGiCo's range of products.

I'd suggest looking at the QL lineup for your fly-out stuff so you also don't have to fly a Rio. The process of moving a file between QL and CL is just about as easy - the biggest programming difference is that the QL has fewer busses than the CL and a slightly different workflow, but otherwise they are 90% similar.

If you want to run a test to see the process, just program up a show in the CL Editor with the console set as CL5, and then flip the preferences to CL1 mode. I think about all it does is truncate and remove anything above Channel 48.
 
I'd suggest looking at the QL lineup for your fly-out stuff so you also don't have to fly a Rio.
At the moment, we're not using Dante in any way.
We use Rocknet and some MY-cards to get all the signals to the desk, anyway.

If you want to run a test to see the process, just program up a show in the CL Editor with the console set as CL5, and then flip the preferences to CL1 mode. I think about all it does is truncate and remove anything above Channel 48.

So I don't even need the "Console File Converter" app?
Would be great!

Thanks for the hints!
 
At the moment, we're not using Dante in any way.
We use Rocknet and some MY-cards to get all the signals to the desk, anyway.

If you're limiting yourself to Rocknet, why scale up to the CL5? You're inherently limiting yourself to the 3x card slots and built-in I/O so a CL1 would serve just as fine a purpose because you're capped at 48 channels. I'd look at slowly updating your stuff to Dante, I haven't seen a Rocknet install in a minute.

I don't actually know if the CL series supports the head-amp control via the Rocknet Mic/line MY Card. It may be worth a call in to Riedel to check that out.

So I don't even need the "Console File Converter" app?
Would be great!

The Console Convert program is just between series of desks. The CL/QL stuff are just looking for that .CLF file.

From their own website: Converts a console file: [between PM5D and M7CL], [between M7CL and LS9], [between PM5D and CL/QL series], [between M7CL and CL/QL series], [between LS9 and CL/QL series], [between RIVAGE PM series and CL/QL series]
 
As mentioned in my first posting, we're in the middle of a planing process.
The first step is to replace the desks.

We're using Rocknet-devices since 12+ years on a larger scale.
On our six rehearsal stages there are some 60+ devices working quite well, and on some of our main stages there are 30+ additional devices, mostly on Yamaha desks of the DM kind and one QL1.

I don't actually know if the CL series supports the head-amp control via the Rocknet Mic/line MY Card.
I haven't seen it in person on the CL series, but they definitely work including the head-amp control on a PM5D, the QL1 and all DM series desks.
All I had to do on the QL1 was to switch a dip-switch on the MY-cards, because the QL1 doesn't have a "remote cable" connection.

Replacing some of the Rocknet mic devices with Yamaha RIOs is the next step, bringing Dante devices to our desks.
And the next step is to replace our "old faithful" RME AES-cards with RME-MADI devices, the MacPro5,1s (2010/2012) with new Macs and some other stuff.

So within two to three years, we'll be having no problem at all to "fill" all channels of a CL5.
;-)

The Console Convert program is just between series of desks. The CL/QL stuff are just looking for that .CLF file.
Great, thanks!
 
The important question is timing. When do you need it?

CL and QL are great consoles but are 100% dead in the water right now. You cannot buy them new. Yamaha cannot source the components, particularly regarding the Dante chipsets. I haven't heard any updates recently but as of last fall, Yamaha was telling everyone at least end of this year before they could ship again -- and once they can, they will be backordered. It's also unclear right now if they will be making engineering changes to maintain the existing product line, revitalizing the CL/QL lineup with a v2 revision, or replacing those products entirely.

If you're in the planning stage, just throw a budgetary placeholder at a console system. Don't get into the weeds of technical details about a specific product because there is a LOT of uncertainty in the console market right now. Basically any console manufacturer that depends on Dante got whacked when Audinate could no longer source certain chipsets.
 
NAMM is next week, Musik Messe follows. Products get announced. Just sayin'. ;)
 
The important question is timing. When do you need it?

Really "need" in the sense of "the old desk is dead, we need to replace it right now"?
As we're quite the last stage in our theater to renovate, there are some DM2000s in the storage area, we could use.
Besides our "touring" desk.
So no problem there.

CL and QL are great consoles but are 100% dead in the water right now. You cannot buy them new.

Thanks for the warning and the insights!
 
NAMM is next week, Musik Messe follows. Products get announced. Just sayin'. ;)
InfoComm is next week too. I, among others, will be visiting Yamaha's booth to pester them because I've got a half-dozen projects in limbo right now that depend on what they're going to do. I suspect a long line of people will be there too with questions ranging from "Hey, when am I going to get this thing I ordered 8 months ago?" to "Why can't I buy anything you from right now?"

And Yamaha being able to announce something is vastly different from being able to ship it. They've got a giant customer base and when they finally can start taking orders again, it'll be a backlog several months long. I wouldn't bet on the average venue being able to get their hands on a new Yamaha console anytime soon.
 
InfoComm is next week too. I, among others, will be visiting Yamaha's booth to pester them because I've got a half-dozen projects in limbo right now that depend on what they're going to do. I suspect a long line of people will be there too with questions ranging from "Hey, when am I going to get this thing I ordered 8 months ago?" to "Why can't I buy anything you from right now?"

And Yamaha being able to announce something is vastly different from being able to ship it. They've got a giant customer base and when they finally can start taking orders again, it'll be a backlog several months long. I wouldn't bet on the average venue being able to get their hands on a new Yamaha console anytime soon.
Oh, I certainly agree, Mike. And Yamaha isn't the only console maker with delivery issues. What I'm anticipating are new products that are not built from Unobtainium. We're still 6 months to a year out from the replacement chip foundries starting delivery. And spot on about the backorder situation. I'm guessing another full year to get production greater than the pre-fire/explosions capacities.
 
FWIW, Yamaha Commercial Audio did not show up to Infocomm this year.

At all.

Their unified communications group had a small booth that barely fit two chairs in it for the purpose of videoconferencing equipment, but there was no presence of Yamaha CA, consoles, or Nexo. They are floating in the wind. I don't expect any significant product updates anytime soon. They have all but solidified the reign of A&H and Digico in taking over their market share in the upcoming months.
 

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