Analog Audio over Cat6 - CatRack and Cat Boxes?

Hi, Looking to upgrade some wiring in a gymnasium. Currently nothing installed, so I run about 200' of sends and returns via analog whirlwind snake to get from FOH to speakers and any mic inputs. Does anyone have experience with analog audio over shielded cat 6 cable? Dave Rat's company, SoundTools, makes Cat Boxes, Wall panels, and a 1 ru Cat Rack. I'm curious about anyone's experience with this and reliability. I'm making the assumption that shielded cat6 runs will be far less expensive to install vs. installing copper audio lines over hundreds of feet to multiple locations around and near the stage. Thanks!

You might look into the parts Angry Audio makes for this work, for broadcast outlets, as well. The chief engineer over there is one of the guys responsible for the best analog radio board ever, the PR&E BMX-III; he knows his stuff...

Installation is mostly about the cost of labor and accessing the cable run, along with materials.

Dave Rat is a smart guy. I'd look at cross talk. All channels share a common ground which might make for interesting trouble shooting if you have device with a "Pin 1 issue". I have several Sound Tools toys (everyone should own the Sender/Sniffer. Really.) and I'm sure that these CAT 6 STP devices will not disappoint in construction quality or fitness for designed use.

Is this a DIY project or is it going out on bid?

Hi, @TimMc this would be installed by a qualified contractor - either through a bid, or the school may already have a contract with a particular vendor. I can try to determine whether there would be a big price difference in the cat6 vs XLR. One thought is that multiple cat6 runs could be helpful for carrying video signals (if in the future they want to do things like multi-camera live streaming). I generally do not need many mic inputs, I primarily use sennheiser wireless handheld mics, and they have been reliable over the years. Therefore most of these cable runs would be sending main mix to main speakers, and a few aux sends for center fill, stage monitors, and sometimes monitors for choir (if they are singing along to karaoke tracks). That said, I think it is always better to get more xlr lines than our current need, to allow for expanded use in the future.
It would be a small collection of audio devices (mostly powered loudspeakers) and cables I would use event-to-event that would not change much, so I don't foresee too many pin 1 issues. I agree, my concerns would be cross-talk or interference/noise entering the system. SoundTools specifies to use shielded cat6. I am a fan of Dave Rat and his thoughts on sound and audio.

Shielded Cat 6 will work fine, provided all of the sends and returns are active balanced outputs and inputs. It's getting better, but there are still some consoles that have unbalanced or impedance (pseudo) balanced outputs on aux busses. Some power amps may still have unbalanced inputs, too. Manufacturers love to obfuscate this on spec sheets. Any unbalanced connection through that cable can cause crosstalk to other channels. A Cat 6 installation should cost quite a bit less because termination is so quick and easy. Real audio cable with XLRs will be more rugged, reliable, and will be more tolerant of unbalanced I/O.

I've used LyxPro's XLR over CAT6 baluns with decent amounts of success. Make sure they are balanced signals, else you'll run into some serious issues.

There are so many manufacturers that make this stuff, my preference is Whirlwind just because of how many options they have for stage boxes, they have a really well curated ecosystem with the Catdusa stuff.

The NYC rental shops really only deal in ETS’s SDS line of audio over CAT cable and I personally own the SoundTools stuff in my flyout kit. They all work the same in the end. I think it’s a mature product space and wish I saw more frequent adoption.

Common ground isn’t usually an issue but can make troubleshooting certain items a chore. I have a few designer friends who can claim to hear issues in condenser mics, I have never tested this because I tend to just do outputs and intercom ties over these boxes but it’s not surprising that you’d run into weird capacitance issues with these boxes - then again the complaints all came from folks at the top end of the market running Neumann condensers into Rivage desks so your complaints may not be their complaints.

In the end, I use my soundtools cat snakes or whirlwind ones maybe one to two times a week and enjoy them. I think if budget and future proofing are a concern you’re headed down a safe path.

Even unshielded twisted pair will do amazingly well for line level (0dbm) audio over distances measured in miles, provided it is over carefully balanced circuits. The networks (NBC, CBS, AC, Mutual) distributed over telco pairs for years with surprisingly good results. (No, not 20-20K hz, but good.) The secret is BALANCED. Add transformers at the in & out ends of the circuit if needed.. Shielded is even better, but BE SURE the shield(s) are grounded at only one end of each run. You do not want any current flowing over the shields!

Thank you everyone for sharing your experiences. I will also check with the installer to get a sense of their experience on previous projects. I will mention the shield being grounded at only one end. For this application, the board is a Mackie 1642 vlz4, sending out to some old 15" JBL eon speakers, and possible other speakers for monitors (QSC CP8, Eon 610). I can certainly use balanced cables between these devices, but I'm not sure if any of those speakers or the Mackie's aux sends would present an issue. It is possible that condenser mics would be used at some point in this system.
In terms of future-proofing, I'm also weighing the simplicity of XLR tie lines, vs. 4 channels per single cat6 line (including the thru function these boxes provide), and labeling access points in the space a logical fashion, with an eye toward someone in the future using this system who may or may not have a lot of experience with audio and signal flow, or experience in troubleshooting potential noise or cross-talk issues. I am leaning toward XLR for the audio lines, but will recommend installing some cat6 lines between certain points, given that in the future there could be an upgrade to a digital board with a stagebox, or intercom, wired internet, video via cat6, any number of other uses.

The 1642 main outputs are balanced, but the other outputs are impedance balanced. You'd need some transformers to make that work well with Cat 6 cable.

Dante, anyone? Really futureproof. Inexpensive on/off ramps to analog. No hum potentisl. Infinite deployment flexibility including powered speakers or line arrays

Ben Stiegler said:

Dante, anyone? Really futureproof. Inexpensive on/off ramps to analog. No hum potentisl. Infinite deployment flexibility including powered speakers or line arrays

Click to expand...

Dante is 2 orders of magnitude more price and complexity than is called for for a gymnasium with a Mackie 1642, in my appraisal, sir.

there's also these:


i have a set and can vouch for them.