Control/Dimming Help me pick a console!

Hi all! I've inherited 2 Ion classics as part of my new position in a lighting department. The previous human in this role left before the panorama took off, so there's been no overlap with people who know "institutional knowledge" on a departmental level.

I wrote to ETC and found out that the upgrade/rebuild program is now done. (I was out of the loop for a while, like so many others...) I'm not sure what to do with our Ion boards now.

Our setup:

Small Stage is running the other Ion full-time. The Ion is portable enough (and booth setup simple enough) that we *could* move it in and out for programming if need be, which I like. This is the "more important" space for me, at the moment, because we are producing more shows in that space (for the foreseeable future) - we're definitely going to spend a lot of time here, so I'm prioritizing improving the workspace & workflow here.

Large Stage has an Eos TI in the booth. Someone mentioned to me that they think one of the Ions was used as the programming desk during tech on shows with movers, because the booth has such poor sightlines. Our board op has confirmed this challenge, too. Since we can't update the Ion software, we aren't able to use that strategy, but the TI can't reasonably be moved. Our board op is doing their best for now, but as many of you know, programming time can make or break a tech process. While we have fewer shows in this space (shared with other organizations), our larger scale shows are typically set in this space - which in turn often necessitates a better programming set up to accommodate multiple kinds of movers and other FX programming.

MY QUESTION: How should I move forward? Should I be concerned that my lighting network is "out of date" ? Not sure how to approach this.
 
Although you can't upgrade to 3.x.x and get Augment3d, you can update your Ions (and Ti) to 2.9.2, even though they're old hardware. So although it's not the absolute latest, it's still pretty up to date. ETC have said that they will keep the 2.9.2 (the final version on old hardware) fixtures up to date for the foreseeable, and bug fixes, too.
 
@flamingo - Agree with everyone that @almorton said. Your best option is to run everything on 2.9.2. It's a very stable and usable software version that will continue to be supported with library and fixture updates so newer gear can work on it.

Your other option is to get a nomad dongle, in fact you may even have one somewhere, as a nomad dongle is one of the free gifts you get for registering a Ti or Gio console. You could run newer 3.x sotwate ony our Ti and on your Nomad Software on someone's PC and MAC. Without a physical console/keys it would be slower, but depending on your setup, it might be an option for simpler or smaller shows to have a designer station at the desk.

Otherwise you are looking at an ION XE as the direct replacement for the Ion Classic.
 
Are you certain that the ion classics you have are windows xp and not win7 based? If they're win7 based you absolutely can run eos3.x on them.

Also, what's preventing you from moving the ti for tech? It's a much better programming surface, and if all it takes is building an additional tech table to set it up on I can't imagine that would be cost prohibitive in relation to any other option. It's a waste to just use it to push go.
 
@almorton @coolsvens thank you! I didn't realize that 2.9 .2 was being supported, again I've been out of the loop a while. I think that basically solves my issue! We also have several nomads in use at the designer workstations.

@danTt We *are* using the Ti for tech - the room is not ideal for programming, but we can make it work. For particularly complex shows, it might be nice to have the option of a better view of the stage, even just for our 8/10s. Unfortunately moving the Ti would open a can of worms that I'm not interested in tackling just yet. You bring up a good point though!
 
Hi all! I've inherited 2 Ion classics as part of my new position in a lighting department. The previous human in this role left before the panorama took off, so there's been no overlap with people who know "institutional knowledge" on a departmental level.

I wrote to ETC and found out that the upgrade/rebuild program is now done. (I was out of the loop for a while, like so many others...) I'm not sure what to do with our Ion boards now.

Our setup:

Small Stage is running the other Ion full-time. The Ion is portable enough (and booth setup simple enough) that we *could* move it in and out for programming if need be, which I like. This is the "more important" space for me, at the moment, because we are producing more shows in that space (for the foreseeable future) - we're definitely going to spend a lot of time here, so I'm prioritizing improving the workspace & workflow here.

Large Stage has an Eos TI in the booth. Someone mentioned to me that they think one of the Ions was used as the programming desk during tech on shows with movers, because the booth has such poor sightlines. Our board op has confirmed this challenge, too. Since we can't update the Ion software, we aren't able to use that strategy, but the TI can't reasonably be moved. Our board op is doing their best for now, but as many of you know, programming time can make or break a tech process. While we have fewer shows in this space (shared with other organizations), our larger scale shows are typically set in this space - which in turn often necessitates a better programming set up to accommodate multiple kinds of movers and other FX programming.

MY QUESTION: How should I move forward? Should I be concerned that my lighting network is "out of date" ? Not sure how to approach this.
Just a quick question. Why can't you move the Ti for Tech?
 
it's very time-consuming and difficult. it's also a bit stressful to move the light board around right before the first preview. i've done it myself in other venues, and i'm not keen to do it again.
Gotcha, I didn't know if you physically weren't able to, or if you just prefered not to.
 
As this topic comes up every other day I thought that it was just time to post a sticky with some general insight and links to relevant information in other threads. I would also like to take this time to reiterate the importance of the search feature here on ControlBooth.com. Please feel free to use this thread to discuss consoles, however don't use it bash consoles or to say that XYZ console is better than ABC console. I just want to try and consolidate information into one easy to find thread so that every week we don't have a new "Help me pick a console" discussion.

Choosing a lighting console is not an easy task. There are many factors that need to be taken into account including: budget, venue size, familiarity with the product, ease of service and support, type of lighting rig you run, planning for the future, and the list goes on. In this day and age, as most lighting controllers are now computerized, it is important to take the same advice as when buying any computer: get the best product that you can afford at the time! Technology has a usable lifespan, and if you start with the best you can get now, the longer it will be able to serve your needs.

There are many consoles and manufacturers to choose from. Each caters to different target markets, some manufacturers have products that cater to a wide market share. The best known manufacturers are:
There are many other manufacturers out there (more complete list here), however you tend to hear about the above listed most often.

One of the most important things that you should do when you are looking into purchasing a new console is GET A DEMO! Even with all the knowledge and knowledgeable people here on CB, there is nothing that will tell you more about a console than sitting down in front of it. If you call your local dealer. We even have a list of theatre suppliers in our wiki, so check it out and add your favorite local shops to the list. If your local supplier is not a dealer for a product that you are interested in, call the manufacturer. Most are more than willing to find a way to set up a demo for you as they all want you to buy their products. When you schedule demos, try to do it when you have a full rig in the air that is typical for the kinds of shows that you do, that way you can put the console through the paces that you would normally use it under. If you do a lot of work with moving lights or LEDs or other "intelligent" devices, make sure that you set some up to try out.

If you can't get a demo scheduled then the next best thing is you see if there is any offline software available for the consoles you are interested in. While you won't get the feel for sitting at the desk, you can learn how it thinks and you usually can play with many of the features (aside form the turning the lights on bit).

When upgrading to a new console you may also have to consider if any infrastructure changes are needed to accommodate the new technology. If you are currently running an old analog two-scene preset console you will have to do some work to have a new console interface with your system. If you were running one manufacturer's controller and are now switching you may need to purchase new protocol converters, nodes, or gateways. So it is important to take things like this into account, especially for the purposes of budgeting.

Next on the list, your venue and what you do. When looking at consoles it is important to look at consoles that do what you need them to do, but are not overkill for your venue. It is also important when you are asking CB for suggestions that you give as many details about what you do, what your venue is like, and what you need to be able to do as you can. If you run a bunch of moving lights all the time then you need a console that is designed to handle MLs well. If you are going on a rock and roll tour then you probably don't want a desk that is geared more towards theatre. If you work in a school you probably want something that is easy to learn and understand.

Another major concern when looking at consoles is the availability of service and support. If you don't have a local dealer for some manufacturer it may not be in your best interests to buy their console because if it goes down an hour before curtain on a weekend you may be SOL. If your only option for service is by shipping out your console, it could be problematic. By the same token, you might consider looking at what other local venues are using. If the majority of people around are using consoles by the same manufacturer then you might want to jump on the bandwagon as in a pinch you may be able to call up a neighboring theatre and borrow a console. Furthermore, having the same console (or family) in multiple venues makes it easy for technicians to work among them all.

As to which consoles are better and what we recommend, it varies from person to person and case to case. Here are some links to threads about choosing consoles (all of which were found using the search feature):
Have fun when you choose a new console, and don't hesitate to ask for advice! Also, stop by the CB Wiki as there are some entries that may be useful when looking at consoles, such as Pricing- "How much does a _____ cost?" and Best Dealers for Supplies & Equipment.

As this topic comes up every other day I thought that it was just time to post a sticky with some general insight and links to relevant information in other threads. I would also like to take this time to reiterate the importance of the search feature here on ControlBooth.com. Please feel free to use this thread to discuss consoles, however don't use it bash consoles or to say that XYZ console is better than ABC console. I just want to try and consolidate information into one easy to find thread so that every week we don't have a new "Help me pick a console" discussion.

Choosing a lighting console is not an easy task. There are many factors that need to be taken into account including: budget, venue size, familiarity with the product, ease of service and support, type of lighting rig you run, planning for the future, and the list goes on. In this day and age, as most lighting controllers are now computerized, it is important to take the same advice as when buying any computer: get the best product that you can afford at the time! Technology has a usable lifespan, and if you start with the best you can get now, the longer it will be able to serve your needs.

There are many consoles and manufacturers to choose from. Each caters to different target markets, some manufacturers have products that cater to a wide market share. The best known manufacturers are:
There are many other manufacturers out there (more complete list here), however you tend to hear about the above listed most often.

One of the most important things that you should do when you are looking into purchasing a new console is GET A DEMO! Even with all the knowledge and knowledgeable people here on CB, there is nothing that will tell you more about a console than sitting down in front of it. If you call your local dealer. We even have a list of theatre suppliers in our wiki, so check it out and add your favorite local shops to the list. If your local supplier is not a dealer for a product that you are interested in, call the manufacturer. Most are more than willing to find a way to set up a demo for you as they all want you to buy their products. When you schedule demos, try to do it when you have a full rig in the air that is typical for the kinds of shows that you do, that way you can put the console through the paces that you would normally use it under. If you do a lot of work with moving lights or LEDs or other "intelligent" devices, make sure that you set some up to try out.

If you can't get a demo scheduled then the next best thing is you see if there is any offline software available for the consoles you are interested in. While you won't get the feel for sitting at the desk, you can learn how it thinks and you usually can play with many of the features (aside form the turning the lights on bit).

When upgrading to a new console you may also have to consider if any infrastructure changes are needed to accommodate the new technology. If you are currently running an old analog two-scene preset console you will have to do some work to have a new console interface with your system. If you were running one manufacturer's controller and are now switching you may need to purchase new protocol converters, nodes, or gateways. So it is important to take things like this into account, especially for the purposes of budgeting.

Next on the list, your venue and what you do. When looking at consoles it is important to look at consoles that do what you need them to do, but are not overkill for your venue. It is also important when you are asking CB for suggestions that you give as many details about what you do, what your venue is like, and what you need to be able to do as you can. If you run a bunch of moving lights all the time then you need a console that is designed to handle MLs well. If you are going on a rock and roll tour then you probably don't want a desk that is geared more towards theatre. If you work in a school you probably want something that is easy to learn and understand.

Another major concern when looking at consoles is the availability of service and support. If you don't have a local dealer for some manufacturer it may not be in your best interests to buy their console because if it goes down an hour before curtain on a weekend you may be SOL. If your only option for service is by shipping out your console, it could be problematic. By the same token, you might consider looking at what other local venues are using. If the majority of people around are using consoles by the same manufacturer then you might want to jump on the bandwagon as in a pinch you may be able to call up a neighboring theatre and borrow a console. Furthermore, having the same console (or family) in multiple venues makes it easy for technicians to work among them all.

As to which consoles are better and what we recommend, it varies from person to person and case to case. Here are some links to threads about choosing consoles (all of which were found using the search feature):
Have fun when you choose a new console, and don't hesitate to ask for advice! Also, stop by the CB Wiki as there are some entries that may be useful when looking at consoles, such as Pricing- "How much does a _____ cost?" and Best Dealers for Supplies & Equipment.
Hello CB Team,
Do you know some lighting control console/SW which has an option to load whole text of the play and allows to add control commands for the lighting and sound directly between play's lines? See attached file... I know only one - DMXControl-2 software. I run it for dozen of years but unfortunately this SW is badly outdated and not supported anymore. New DMXControl-3 SW doesn't have this feature. Maybe someone knows console/SW with very useful for the life theater feature. Please advise. Thank you!
 

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I don't know of any options but I might try looking for something that can trigger a more traditiuonal system using OSC or another protocol. This would allow you to use any modern lighting console/software and this functionality
 
Do you know some lighting control console/SW which has an option to load whole text of the play and allows to add control commands for the lighting and sound directly between play's lines?

It would not be hard to add this ability to our Cue Player One, if everybody thinks this would be useful.
 
Hello CB Team,
Do you know some lighting control console/SW which has an option to load whole text of the play and allows to add control commands for the lighting and sound directly between play's lines? See attached file... I know only one - DMXControl-2 software. I run it for dozen of years but unfortunately this SW is badly outdated and not supported anymore. New DMXControl-3 SW doesn't have this feature. Maybe someone knows console/SW with very useful for the life theater feature. Please advise. Thank you!
The next release of the VariLite NEO software will include this feature. We have implemented this by allowing the user to load and display any PDF file. You can then add your own markup to the pages including being able to add cue points onto the page. The software can auto page the pdf file so that your next cue is always visible. You can also put your own custom page commands into the cue list and even load a different file if necessary. We went with PDF because in my experience that's how all scripts come to me. It also means you can have any document you want. You could have both the script and score shown if you have enough monitor space.

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