Follow Spot Cues

DHSLXOP said:

Just wondering--why would you not put in a pickup line? And also, what is a douser?

Thanks

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A dowser is and mechanical device usually installed in front of < towards the lens > the iris. It is made up of 2 metal plates that close like swinging doors into the beam. The effect is a slow dimming of the spot rather than a Pop on or off. Choppers sit closer to the gate and are thus create a much harder line. Choppers slide in and out of the beamin a single horizontal plane and give the lok of a straight horizontal line comming up from the bottom and down from the top. Dowsers are not the most common attachment you will find on a spot. A lot of times people will simply black wrap the color holder and use that as a dowser, it works but the effect is not as clean as a two bladed dowser. Typically the arrangement of handles, running from rear to front of spot is Iris,chopper, dowser. The dowsers need more room as they swing into place.
Now you know, and knowing is half the battle.........

DHSLXOP said:

Just wondering--why would you not put in a pickup line? And also, what is a douser?
Thanks

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See van's post for that. The reason I am against pickups for spots (or any other dept for that matter) is that when you give the standby they should be paying complete attention to you, not what the character on stage is saying. They should go on only your go, not when the character completes their line. If they decide to go when they want to, they will not fade with the other spot, or with the rest of the lighting on stage. Don't put the power in others hands, keep it in your own. Your the one with the book in front of you, and (hopefully) the only one with the book in front of you.

Oh yeah the pickup line thing.... see footers reply above. I concur wholeheartedly. Not to start another debate on the role of the SM, or LD in the case of R&R, but You need to have complete control over what and when people are doing.

Footer4321 said:

See van's post for that. The reason I am against pickups for spots (or any other dept for that matter) is that when you give the standby they should be paying complete attention to you, not what the character on stage is saying. They should go on only your go, not when the character completes their line. If they decide to go when they want to, they will not fade with the other spot, or with the rest of the lighting on stage. Don't put the power in others hands, keep it in your own. Your the one with the book in front of you, and (hopefully) the only one with the book in front of you.

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So when you say this, you mean that other than sound and the ASMs, I should be the only one with a book in front of them? Because right now, the lighting operator and the flyman also has one in front of them

DHSLXOP said:

So when you say this, you mean that other than sound and the ASMs, I should be the only one with a book in front of them? Because right now, the lighting operator and the flyman also has one in front of them

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You are the only book. Occasionally ASM's have books for support of the actors and to track props, but not to take cues out of. Lighting, deck movements, sound, spots, sfx, and about anything else should all be called by the SM. These departments in no way need any type of script. I know that is seams like that is a lot to put on the SM's shoulders, but in reality it is a much less stressful situation then have 19 million people taking there own cues. Really the only thing that should not be cued by the SM is actor entrances/exits inside of a scene (though occasionally they are). In opera everything, including actors, are cued from he stage manager.

Footer4321 said:

You are the only book. Occasionally ASM's have books for support of the actors and to track props, but not to take cues out of. Lighting, deck movements, sound, spots, sfx, and about anything else should all be called by the SM. These departments in no way need any type of script. I know that is seams like that is a lot to put on the SM's shoulders, but in reality it is a much less stressful situation then have 19 million people taking there own cues. Really the only thing that should not be cued by the SM is actor entrances/exits inside of a scene (though occasionally they are). In opera everything, including actors, are cued from he stage manager.

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Oh wow, I never knew that...I always assumed that everyone had books (at least) to follow along in.

DHSLXOP said:

Oh wow, I never knew that...I always assumed that everyone had books (at least) to follow along in.

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See that's why Profeesional Stage managers are so cranky all the time and want to be in constant control of everything in thier lives !

< Now I'm running for my life as my wife throws things at me>

Help I'm being attacked by an Equity Stage Manager !

I know professionaly the SM calls all cues but at a high school I think it could be to much for the sm to call every sound cue ie microphone combinations. Sxf yes because they need to be synched.

The sound should be able to have a scipt to follow so that they know where they are. Also what happens if the mikes get mixed up the sound mixer has to be able to change the cue around to allow for the mix up. There wouldn't be any point in slavisly following a cue that says turn mike 3 on when the actual mike on the actor is no 4.

I would tend to let lighting have a script as well not to run their own cues but so they can be a backup in case you get busy and forget to call their lx, spot standby's.

I think when learning people should be able to follow the script so they can see how the cues have been designed.

The LD should have a cued script for the rehearshals so they can see when you called a cue they can make notes. With lighting by just changing the place a cue is called maybe by one word it can improve a lighting look 100 percent.

Let them have some visual cues where appropriate it gives them a sense of reposibility. Also unless you have a really good camera system that sees 100 percent of your stage they will need to do some visual cues because you just can't see the entrance / exit. For instance a fade out after song as they leave can look naf if the spot stays in long enough to hit the wings. Unless of course they are hard up against them to start with. You still give them a cue standby and cue go on your visual.

With the spot cue sheet make it like a crib sheet with only the basic info they need. Then print each line in a large font so they can place it somewhere on or near the spot they can read it without having to touch it.

I know you said you won't get the spots until tech week. But if you haven't already get them to attend rehearshals so they can learn the characters. If you have coms put them up in their f/spot positions and call the basic cues the LD is planning. It might seem overkill but this will help clarify issues such as which spot picks up who where. It helps with working out which spot does what. If I have more then one spot I tend to alternate them when there is only one person to spot. This gives them a break but also means the next spot is setup without the rush that might cause a mistake. Obviously during tech week things will change but at least some thought has been given to it so there is a basic plan when you have to bring heaps of other things together.

cutlunch said:

I know professionaly the SM calls all cues but at a high school I think it could be to much for the sm to call every sound cue ie microphone combinations. Sxf yes because they need to be synched.
The sound should be able to have a scipt to follow so that they know where they are. Also what happens if the mikes get mixed up the sound mixer has to be able to change the cue around to allow for the mix up. There wouldn't be any point in slavisly following a cue that says turn mike 3 on when the actual mike on the actor is no 4.
I would tend to let lighting have a script as well not to run their own cues but so they can be a backup in case you get busy and forget to call their lx, spot standby's.
I think when learning people should be able to follow the script so they can see how the cues have been designed.
The LD should have a cued script for the rehearshals so they can see when you called a cue they can make notes. With lighting by just changing the place a cue is called maybe by one word it can improve a lighting look 100 percent.
Let them have some visual cues where appropriate it gives them a sense of reposibility. Also unless you have a really good camera system that sees 100 percent of your stage they will need to do some visual cues because you just can't see the entrance / exit. For instance a fade out after song as they leave can look naf if the spot stays in long enough to hit the wings. Unless of course they are hard up against them to start with. You still give them a cue standby and cue go on your visual.
With the spot cue sheet make it like a crib sheet with only the basic info they need. Then print each line in a large font so they can place it somewhere on or near the spot they can read it without having to touch it.
I know you said you won't get the spots until tech week. But if you haven't already get them to attend rehearshals so they can learn the characters. If you have coms put them up in their f/spot positions and call the basic cues the LD is planning. It might seem overkill but this will help clarify issues such as which spot picks up who where. It helps with working out which spot does what. If I have more then one spot I tend to alternate them when there is only one person to spot. This gives them a break but also means the next spot is setup without the rush that might cause a mistake. Obviously during tech week things will change but at least some thought has been given to it so there is a basic plan when you have to bring heaps of other things together.

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Most sound people don't follow a script, and if they do need something most make small cut sheets that basicly give them a "at a glance" look of the scene. No one expects a SM to call every single mic change, and they should not have to. They should however call all playback cues.

My bottom line, its the SM's job to make the show run smoothly, and to keep the show running the same every night. To do this the SM has to have full control over the performance. If the SM misses a cue, its their job to figure out what they will have to do to get back to what should be there, not the board ops. You would be surprised how calming it is to know what you say is what is going to happen, no one will do anything without your magical G-O. I hate the idea of having a multitude of people all with a book, not knowing what others are thinking, and just doing stuff. The SM (should) know all movements that are happening onstage: actors, props, scenery, rail, lighting, sound, sfx, wardrobe, and all the others. If something is wrong, the SM should be able to correct it. Its the SM's job to call the show... For a HS show I think the SM is perfectly capable of calling all of this. The cue numbers are less, the complexity of the shows are less, and the tech periods are usually freakishly long. Usually when I am board op for a show (I do everything to try not to be, but some contracts won't hire a board op) I do everything in my power to not pay attention to the show. I tend to have a happy finger that loves to hit buttons (the musical kind) at the end of numbers. So if the SM handed me a script and said follow along, it would be a very bad thing.

Footer4321 said:

Most sound people don't follow a script, and if they do need something most make small cut sheets that basicly give them a "at a glance" look of the scene. No one expects a SM to call every single mic change, and they should not have to. They should however call all playback cues.
My bottom line, its the SM's job to make the show run smoothly, and to keep the show running the same every night. To do this the SM has to have full control over the performance. If the SM misses a cue, its their job to figure out what they will have to do to get back to what should be there, not the board ops. You would be surprised how calming it is to know what you say is what is going to happen, no one will do anything without your magical G-O. I hate the idea of having a multitude of people all with a book, not knowing what others are thinking, and just doing stuff. The SM (should) know all movements that are happening onstage: actors, props, scenery, rail, lighting, sound, sfx, wardrobe, and all the others. If something is wrong, the SM should be able to correct it. Its the SM's job to call the show... For a HS show I think the SM is perfectly capable of calling all of this. The cue numbers are less, the complexity of the shows are less, and the tech periods are usually freakishly long. Usually when I am board op for a show (I do everything to try not to be, but some contracts won't hire a board op) I do everything in my power to not pay attention to the show. I tend to have a happy finger that loves to hit buttons (the musical kind) at the end of numbers. So if the SM handed me a script and said follow along, it would be a very bad thing.

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Thanks, this makes a lot of sense, and I'll hopefully be able to use this in future shows.

DHSLXOP said:

Thanks, this makes a lot of sense, and I'll hopefully be able to use this in future shows.

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Just remember, whatever combination of things you end up doing, just make sure it is something that makes you feel comfortable doing. Just because it what I think should be done, or what Van thinks should be done, or anyone else here thinks it should be done doesn't make it the "right" way. Every theatre operates a bit differently, though I am trying to guide you in the basic ideas that is considered standard. Bottom line, make it your own (and you get to define that!)

Footer4321 said:

Just remember, whatever combination of things you end up doing, just make sure it is something that makes you feel comfortable doing. Just because it what I think should be done, or what Van thinks should be done, or anyone else here thinks it should be done doesn't make it the "right" way. Every theatre operates a bit differently, though I am trying to guide you in the basic ideas that is considered standard. Bottom line, make it your own (and you get to define that!)

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Hey ! If I think it's the right way, it is the right way !
At least at my theatre !

Van said:

Hey ! If I think it's the right way, it is the right way !
At least at my theatre !

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Yes, but you also sign the paychecks (or the contracts, or whatever of that sort, you get the idea....)

Having taught High School with some really great techs I want to throw this in...
I agree in principle with those saying that the only person who should have a script is the SM (and maybe the ASM). However, In the world of High School theater I found that even my best student sound techs really worked better with a script. Sound Ops often have multiple tasks to perform at the same time. I found that having a script with good notes seemed to help my students prepare and visualize ahead of time all the tasks that they had to do at once and how long they had to do it. I did drill it into their heads that they never moved until they heard the SM say go. The point is that the script is not there for the sound guy to follow along, the script is there to help keep all the notes and thought organized in the context of the show.

Also if your high school is still struggling with an old two scene preset light console your light op should have a script for the same reason. In that case, the light op isn't just a trained monkey pressing go. There are a lot of tasks to be done and having a script seems to just help keep it all organized in the student tech's head.

It should be the goal of good high school sound techs to work with only a cue sheet, but I wouldn't push them until they have some experience.

Thanks gafftaper that's what I was trying to get across in my post. You said it better.
Also I was just now thinking another good reason for them to have a script is that there are more chances of people skipping their lines.
With people having scripts the tech team will be able to find where they have got to quicker.
The SM will then have to call the cues to get in the right spot again.

DHSLXOP said:

While on the topic of follow spots...
This year, we have a new girl that wants (plus we're down on techs, and we need a spot op) to be a spot op for our musical this year. We are going to be teaching her how to use it and everything, the only problem is we're not sure if she'd be tall enough...We have-i believe-super troupers (sp?) at the theater, but she is only between 5'2" and 5'3". Do you think that she is too short to be able to run one, or should she be ok?
The only reason I ask is because we won't have access to the spot until tech week, the week before the show.

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I knew a 4'11" girl who weighed 5lbs sopping wet who could run long through super troopers...she'll be fine.

Back on topic as an LD I like to make sure there's a list of what each spot does in each cue with color size ect. A copy should be given to each spot and the SM so if there's a quick couple of cue's the SM can double check what the spot is supposed to be doing. Generally I only expect my SM to call the Spot cue while the spots reference the sheet to know what needs to be done during the cue.

Grog12 said:

I knew a 4'11" girl who weighed 5lbs sopping wet who could run long through super troopers...she'll be fine.
A copy should be given to each spot and the SM so if there's a quick couple of cue's the SM can double check what the spot is supposed to be doing. Generally I only expect my SM to call the Spot cue while the spots reference the sheet to know what needs to be done during the cue.

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That is how we do it here, and i have seen it done on the road.

As a lighting designer, I like to give my spot ops their cues ahead of time and not have to worrow about calling them. As SM, there are enough things to call. On my current production of Les Mis there are 105 spot cues, 225 light cues, and a whole bunch of shifts backstage. The SM wouldn't be able to call all this My cue sheet is in the following format.

Why can't your SM call all of that? I am a great believer that the SM is in complete control of the show and as an LD have given a show with over 500 lighting cues and at least 100 dome cues. Admittedly a large number of the Lighting cues during the musical numbers were timed follow ons but that still left at least 300 cues to call. I would expect that any trained SM could do that. Having split control over a show leaves too many chances for a simple error to be amplified by people doing what they think they should be without control from a central point.

Van said:

A dowser is and mechanical device usually installed in front of < towards the lens > the iris.

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Sorry Van, but I feel I must correct you.

What you describe is actually a person who looks for underground water.

The mechanical dimming device used on arc and discharge light sources is called a "douser."

One of my biggest pet peeves is the misspelling of theatrical terms. I have seen "Leico" on a fairly famous artist's rider.


As to the Spot Operator's Cue Sheet, I would add a column labeled "Size."