1:1 patch: Do you use it?

[porkchop]

I must agree that a little more information from the OP would have been nice. If the question is do I like a dimmer 1 > channel 1 ; dimmer 2 > channel 2 patch that is almost always a no. The only way I would like that is if I designed and numbered the space's dimmers to fit my rep plot so that I could use such a patch and have the lights grouped in a way that makes sense when programming. That is a waste of time to me and I would never do it.

If you are asking if I would program one dimmer per channel then that is an interesting question that depends highly on equipment used and the plot I'm using. If I have a plot with more fixtures than dimmers, then I will have to do some physical twofering and then I would likely have only one dimmer per channel. If I have some extra dimmers and there are lights that will only be used together I see no problem in saving some cable, plugging the lights into the easiest dimmers, and just putting both dimmers into one channel (off the top of my head par can down lights tend to be the most common use of that technique).

There have been a few people that have mentioned submasters and groups for reasons not to use more than one dimmer per channel. That ends up being totally a question of how your board handles such things and how good you are with your board. I've worked on a board that had 10 pages of 6 numbered subs so all I had to reference what a sub did was my note pad, my memory, and the try it and see what it does method. This made it easier, because of a patch that made sense to me (1 - 3 front warm, 5 - 8 front cool, etc...), to just turn on the lights I want with the necessary channels than to program and later seek out the sub to do it. On the other hand more modern boards allow you to name groups and in many cases will keep them displayed on a screen for you to access. In this case it's usually significantly easier so have one light to one dimmer (for fine tuning, lamp check, and such) and then just use the named groups when you're designing. The wild card here being the user, any combination of, organizational skills, memory, training, etc.... will cause you to lean one way over the other.

 

[theatretechguy]

Ok, since my comment helped start this poll, let me tell you why I run a 1:1 patch for my conventionals.

I have 120 dimmers in my building (which is a very small number considering it's a 1000-seat theater) and I'm using most of them. The plot is a rep plot that stays the same probably 80% of the time. It gets changed for the Fall and Spring productions and then gets restored. It's much easier for me to memorize one set of numbers when programming the rep plot. My movers and other DMX goodies exist in my second universe and I run a modified patch for those.

If I need to light up downstage right, I know its dimmer/channel 23 and 14 and that system WORKS for me. The key here is find something that works for you and your space. This system obviously wouldn't work in a venue with constantly changing plots, designers and technicians/programmers, but in my situation, it works.

 

[lieperjp]

I have 120 outlets over the stage and catwalk, but I only have 59 dimmers. In our gym we have about 80 outlets and 40 dimmers plus a Right Arm in 8-bit mode. On both areas I use a 1:1 patch. However, I plan on eventually using patching to make life easier.

 

[SteveB]

Ok, since my comment helped start this poll, let me tell you why I run a 1:1 patch for my conventionals.

I have 120 dimmers in my building (which is a very small number considering it's a 1000-seat theater) and I'm using most of them. The plot is a rep plot that stays the same probably 80% of the time. It gets changed for the Fall and Spring productions and then gets restored. It's much easier for me to memorize one set of numbers when programming the rep plot. My movers and other DMX goodies exist in my second universe and I run a modified patch for those.

If I need to light up downstage right, I know its dimmer/channel 23 and 14 and that system WORKS for me. The key here is find something that works for you and your space. This system obviously wouldn't work in a venue with constantly changing plots, designers and technicians/programmers, but in my situation, it works.

If you changed the name on the post to Frank Wood, It would not surprise me in the least. Frank had (still does it for all I know) his system this way and it baffled most everybody on RATS and the Stagecraft list as to how he kept track of what is to many LD's a non-sensical method of laying out a plot.

As a question: With the system configured this way, you obviously lose the ability to use the Thru key to bring up a system I.E. Front Warm Areas 1-15 as Ch's 1 THRU 15 at -10%. With 1:1 you are pressing the AND key endlessly. You can build groups, but it defeats your intent of simplifying, as now you have to remember the Group assignments.

This all assumes you are using a Keypad, as opposed to a manual fader console.

The only time I do a 1:1 (on a system with 256 stage dimmers) is when I am using the entire plot as a one-off and making it up as I go - a Film or TV shoot as example.

1:1 is very common in TV studios, BTW, as it allows an LD out on deck to look up at the rig, pick out a fixture - which is almost always setup as a Unit per Dimmer rig, and call up a Ch/Dim number. Since most (every ?) console requires you to build up cues, groups and subs using channel numbers, 1:1 then makes sense.

EVERY event I do (with the above exception) has somebodies logical channel system that has a patch that is all over the map. The ML's in house usually start at Ch 256 for two reasons: 1) In my experiences, most traveling companies using the house rig have figured out that 250 channels is the typical maximum channel capacity they need AND will encounter. 2) 256 is the first channel on the line below the line that 250 ends with, on an Express screen, with my ML's needing 24 channels, it lays out on the screen in logical order.

So not having answered the poll, as there's additional options that the poll doesn't account for, I see a channel to dimmer patch that is NOT 1:1 for every event.

EDIT: As a thought about Rep. Plots. It seems to me that if it's your plot, assigning channels in a logical order that makes sense to you, is easier to remember then the *possibly* non-logical dimmer layout. In the end, the hookup keeps track of the numbers - dimmers included and they become background data.

Steve B.

 

[TheDonkey]

sorry, I was asking about softpatching on the console. I didn't know that people still used hardpatching. We have a Strand CD80 rack and a Strand lightboard M - both from 1987 - and we still only use soft patching.

Yeah, the way we've been taught, we hard-patch.

If I had everything my way, I'd soft-patch everything, but we rent the place out alot, and a bunch of different people use the space, and they've all been (Improperly) taught how to hard-patch, so if I(a student) were to start messing with stuff noone else knows about, I'll get in some doggy dodo.

And we still (stupid IT dep) don't have a proper monitor plugged into our console, so Softpatching a 4x20 LCD screen is a betch.

 

[icewolf08]

I have to agree with SteveB. While I understand the "I only want to learn one set of numbers [with a rep plot]" idea, using a 1-to-1 patch seems quite annoying. However, if it works for you, there is no reason to change.

Think about it this way, you are a designer that works in many theatres each year, however, when you send them your plot and paperwork you always lay out your systems the same. So, no matter what theatre you walk into, no matter what console, number of dimmers, number of circuits, etc., it doesn't matter to you because when you call channels 1-15 you know that you will get the frontlight for areas 1-15. When you call 21-35 you know that you will get the backlight for areas 1-15. However if you were patched 1-to-1 you might end up needing 15 random channel numbers to bring up those front lights, it makes no sense.

Groups and Submasters are still helpful as well. Consider how many keystrokes you save by hitting "Group X @ FULL" rather than "1-15 @ FULL." While it may seem redundant to patch your areas and such in the same channel range and then put them in a group, it still means that you always know where each channel is. This of course is besides the fact that you might record your groups with level information so that all of the areas balance intensity.

This applies to the rep plot as well though. While some people have a system memorized, that is fine, but why not a system that lays out the numbers so anyone can do it. High schools too. Just think, if channels 1-15 always controlled the area frontlights then no matter what show the theatre department is producing, the band teacher could still come in and turn on channels 1-15 and know that he is going to get frontlight for his rehearsal.

Again, to each his own (and if it ain't broke don't fix it), but softpatch has opened up worlds of possibility to simplify our lives, if you have a console that supports softpatching you should give it a shot, yo may find that you save lots of time.

 

[theatretechguy]

With my rep plot in place, my areas are logically laid out on my subs because I do a LOT of busking. Basically using my subs the same way you would use channels. Most of my subs only have a couple of lights in them.

The way I do things is simply because I designed in a theater that had essentially nothing. Barely 36 dimmers, a board that could only support 36 channels and had limited memory. I didn't have the the luxury of a soft patch (Your patch was the spaghetti patch located directly beneath the CD80 packs). Your lights were plugged into a circut, which then needed to be patched to a dimmer. Adding channels into the mix would just add further confusion when something decided not to work.

I'm no longer designer for that theater and I guess you could say I still haven't adapted to doing things a new way. My job now includes building sets, designing sound and lighting has taken a backseat.

However, because of the overwhelming response my "method" has taken, I'm going to attempt to organize my plots differently, if for nothing else, to leave something logical in the event of my incapacitation or death.

-Chris

 

[waynehoskins]

With my rep plot in place, my areas are logically laid out on my subs because I do a LOT of busking. Basically using my subs the same way you would use channels. Most of my subs only have a couple of lights in them.

The way I do things is simply because I designed in a theater that had essentially nothing. Barely 36 dimmers, a board that could only support 36 channels and had limited memory. I didn't have the the luxury of a soft patch (Your patch was the spaghetti patch located directly beneath the CD80 packs). Your lights were plugged into a circut, which then needed to be patched to a dimmer. Adding channels into the mix would just add further confusion when something decided not to work.

I'm no longer designer for that theater and I guess you could say I still haven't adapted to doing things a new way. My job now includes building sets, designing sound and lighting has taken a backseat.

However, because of the overwhelming response my "method" has taken, I'm going to attempt to organize my plots differently, if for nothing else, to leave something logical in the event of my incapacitation or death.

-Chris

Another big reason for adding in the channel hookup is that, in educational theatre (even at Tiny Town School District), I think what you teach your students is more important than the production. Not that the production should suffer unnecessarily, but if your students become familiar with the softpatch, they'll be better off. Heck, I wish we still had manual multi-preset boards and piano boards and patch cabinets and all for them to learn on .. not because they're better (we probably replaced them for good reason), but the more they're exposed to, the better prepared they'll be for whatever step is next.

Just my two cents as a guy who lights high school theatre, and hopefully in the process teaches the kids something.

 

[Esoteric]

I have to be with Icewolf on this one.

When I design I send the instrument schedule to the ME with only the channel column filled in. I could care less what he does with his dimmers/circuits as long as when I call channel 1 the DSL warm front comes on.

I have some standard numbers (I like specials in the 100's, cyc stuff at 150, etc) but it can vary. For example if I have 9 front light areas in one theater (common in thrust spaces) I will have 12, 15, or 16 in some large proceniums. So my channel numbers vary slightly from place to place, but not a whole lot.

Mike

 

[propmonkey]

throughout high school i ran a 1:1 but thats because of the circuit layout. most other spaces ive worked patch what they need. throughout high school i ignored the patch menu unless i needed a nondim but now im learning how useful it really is

 

[Jeroen]

For smaller productions, I like to keep it simple, patching fixtures in a logical order, like front 1 - 9,... often this results in a soft 1 : 1 patch and a hardpatch of some fixtures together, depending on dimmer count. Mostly the desk has way more channels available then at the dimmer end... so keeping each dimmer or attribute under a channel gives full control... getting things under one fader or button can still be done by groups/pallettes/submasters

In larger productions, when playing with moving lights, leds and ohter nice things, I tend to 'group' fixtures in the patch. For instance, conventionals on universe 1 and movers on universe 2, or conventionals from 1 to 255 and moving lights from 256, thereafter softpatching the desk to get 'an easy to use lay-out'.

And for the other question... we use the 'coer' and 'jardin' concept for left or right (ps or ops)... channels 1 is almost always DSR warm front

 

[rosebudld]

I didn't vote also because the question didn't make sense to me.. I use a 1 dimmer to 1 channel all the time.. then program my submasters or groups to give better individual zone control.. then I'll repatch as a soft patch if necessary on a per show basis..

 

[seanandkate]

The real question is, is ch. 1 DSL, DSR, USL, or USR?

DSR Warm Fronts. Ch 1

 

[waynehoskins]

Channel One is always kick.

Oh wait, I'm wearing the wrong hat.

Lighting Channel One is downstage right fronts, warm or from right if there are multiple of them.

 

[renegadeblack]

The only time that I ever patched anything was in middle school on our real old console, I don't even know what it was called as I never thought that it was something that I was really going to get very involved in. It was hardpatched with a patch board.

In high school, everything is 1:1 except for channels 95 and 96 which are at the back left and right of the house and are hardpatched. I couldn't imagine a real need to softpatch. Everything that I want to have together are on a submaster. From what I understand, the convention for newer desks are that there isn't a slider for every channel. I have a board in which I do have a slider for every channel.

On a semi-unrelated note:
I don't understand how you could function without having a slider for every channel. It would drive me nuts.

 

[TheDonkey]

The only time that I ever patched anything was in middle school on our real old console, I don't even know what it was called as I never thought that it was something that I was really going to get very involved in. It was hardpatched with a patch board.

In high school, everything is 1:1 except for channels 95 and 96 which are at the back left and right of the house and are hardpatched. I couldn't imagine a real need to softpatch. Everything that I want to have together are on a submaster. From what I understand, the convention for newer desks are that there isn't a slider for every channel. I have a board in which I do have a slider for every channel.

On a semi-unrelated note:
I don't understand how you could function without having a slider for every channel. It would drive me nuts.

Yeah, me neither,

If you notice a light being a little too hot for a part of the stage, it's much easier to slowly move the fader down than it is to guess at a percentage number.

 

[atm999]

On a semi-unrelated note:
I don't understand how you could function without having a slider for every channel. It would drive me nuts.

I felt that way, but now that we are ready to buy a board without them, have stopped using ours and only using the subs and keypad. Although it takes some adjusting, I can't say that I truely MISS them, just that I have to spend slightly more though on the new system which I have not used for very long.

 

[renegadeblack]

I felt that way, but now that we are ready to buy a board without them, have stopped using ours and only using the subs and keypad. Although it takes some adjusting, I can't say that I truely MISS them, just that I have to spend slightly more though on the new system which I have not used for very long.

On many consoles, I see a few sliders, what are those normally? Are they assigned or are they submasters?

 

[SteveB]

On many consoles, I see a few sliders, what are those normally? Are they assigned or are they submasters?

Depends on the console, but most likely Submasters, which are assignable, BTW, in terms of being able record a look you want to bring up on a manual fader, as opposed to being recorded in a cue.

The post on Is 2 Scene Dead is a good read with many wise thoughts expressed about the use of manual faders and their relevance on today's console.

And as an explanation so all you new folks understand the concepts:

- Softpatch: The ability to assign a dimmer/circuit to a console channel, done within the software of the control console. The numbers on the screen on a console (Express, Pallette, etc..) are Channels. You can bring up a Channel as a number via the Keypad, as a Fader on a console with manual faders (Express 24 or 48 2 scene), or if the Channel(s) are recorded/assigned into a Submaster - which is a manual group of channels. Consoles do not allow you to bring up the actual dimmer as a number that you can record with a value.

- Hardpatch: If the theater has a Dimmer-per-Circuit system, then every receptacle/outlet is directly wired back to a dimmer. Some theaters still have a Patch Panel, which connects the circuit to the dimmers and which generally has more circuits then dimmers and requires you to make choices to assign specific circuits located throughout the theater to fewer dimmers. You then still have the ability to assign the dimmers to specific control channels at the consoles, to allow for better control.

SB

 

[Esoteric]

Yeah, me neither,

If you notice a light being a little too hot for a part of the stage, it's much easier to slowly move the fader down than it is to guess at a percentage number.

Why not just put it on the roller? Who needs channel faders?

Mike