2P&G/Stage Pin vs. Edison vs. Twist-Lock

[Dionysus]

there are basically 4 'grades' of these connectors. Residential (cheap hardware store junk), commercial (hubbell Valise or leviton Python), industrial (fed spec) (5266 / 5269 types), and hospital (are avaialble in hospital grade commercial type and hospital grade version of the industrial grade type). There are also some other types such as corrosion resistant which dont really come into play here.

The differences between industrial grade and hospital grade are minor, mainly corrosion resistance and contact retention. You *may* notice a difference in the female after a few years use, but for the most part hospital grade doesnt warrant the increased cost for our industry.

With regard to what 5-15 and 5-20 can be used where, here is what is code allows:
15a cir:
-single 15a receptacle
-multiple 15a receptacles
20a cir
-single 20a receptacle
-multiple 20a receptacles
-multiple 15a receptacles

The 'T' shaped ones are 5-20R. There is no 5-20R(that I know of) that will not accept a 5-15. Aparrently in canada a 5-20R is referred to as a 5-20RA for some reason.

The nema designations are -P for male plug, -C for female connector that goes on a cord, and -R for receptacle that goes in the wall.

The NEMA designations are essentially used in Canada

Aaah yes I had forgotten about industrial grade, rarely see it in code, and I've installed them too. But I've delt a lot more with hospital grade. The hospital grade is basically just designed to be able to be used with 20a and is designed to be plugged/unplugged often. The Residential grade is NOT meant to be plugged/unplugged often at all. Code stipulates that you must upgrade from the residential grade if anything is going to be plugged/unplugged often.

The 5-20RA is a type of receptacle that accepts standard Edison or the 20a counterpart. The A stands for Alternate. The 5-20R only accepts the 'side pin' 20a while the RA is the true "t" slot.

And yes you can put 15a receptacles on a 20a circuit in certain cases, but there MUST be more than one and it is up to the discretion of the inspection authority (at least in Canada). So don't annoy the inspector if you want to get away with it... Trust me on that one. I deal with inspectors all the time.

 

[cprted]

Like Dinoysus, I'm also in Canada and at a twist-lock house. In these parts I have actually never run across 2P&G connectors anywhere. I'd say its probably 90% twist-lock in this neck of the woods. To be honest, I had the google 2P&G when I first joined the site to be sure I knew what you guys were talking about.

 

[SteveB]

Still waiting for the proper stage lighting connector to be invented!!

T!

Sigh..... Jeez John, I just am getting used to the pleasure of having an all 2P&G house, after 20 years of old-style twist and you want me to switch ?. OMDB !.

Anybody here know what they use in Australia ?. I seem to recall a nifty connector that a male and female in one housing, or some silly thing like that. Curious.

Steve B.

 

[Footer]

There is that odd connector that Bandit Lites uses, large blue 3 pin thing. Covers on both sides, covers lock together when plugged in. Can't remember its name for the life of me.

 

[mrb]

There is that odd connector that Bandit Lites uses, large blue 3 pin thing. Covers on both sides, covers lock together when plugged in. Can't remember its name for the life of me.

CEE-form

 

[mrb]

The NEMA designations are essentially used in Canada

Aaah yes I had forgotten about industrial grade, rarely see it in code, and I've installed them too. But I've delt a lot more with hospital grade. The hospital grade is basically just designed to be able to be used with 20a and is designed to be plugged/unplugged often. The Residential grade is NOT meant to be plugged/unplugged often at all. Code stipulates that you must upgrade from the residential grade if anything is going to be plugged/unplugged often.

The 5-20RA is a type of receptacle that accepts standard Edison or the 20a counterpart. The A stands for Alternate. The 5-20R only accepts the 'side pin' 20a while the RA is the true "t" slot.

And yes you can put 15a receptacles on a 20a circuit in certain cases, but there MUST be more than one and it is up to the discretion of the inspection authority (at least in Canada). So don't annoy the inspector if you want to get away with it... Trust me on that one. I deal with inspectors all the time.

can you give me a mfgr part number for this 5-20R that will only accept a 5-20 male plug?

The industrial grade connectors are what is pretty much standard here in the USA for theatrical use where edison is used. Leviton and Hubbell part numbers 5266 for the male and 5269 for the female. They are available in all black for entertainment use. I attached a photo of the black Leviton ones.

 

[Spader]

Here are a couple of reasons that have been given to me:

Try to connect a twist lock connector in the dark, above your head, while you are on a ladder 20 feet in the air. Stage Pin is just easier that way.

Twist lock connectors are round, so if you have a connector on the ground and an actor makes an entrance without seeing the connector, there is a chance that they will step on the connector and make more of a backwards leap than an entrance. stage pin is rectangular and thus does not roll.

 

[Dionysus]

can you give me a mfgr part number for this 5-20R that will only accept a 5-20 male plug?

The industrial grade connectors are what is pretty much standard here in the USA for theatrical use where edison is used. Leviton and Hubbell part numbers 5266 for the male and 5269 for the female. They are available in all black for entertainment use. I attached a photo of the black Leviton ones.

I'm quite familiar with the 5266 and 5269 (not quite so good with remembering the numbers however).

I know I've not only seen but installed 5-20Rs that will not accept standard 5-15ps... However I have not been able to locate any part numbers as of yet. It is quite reasonable that they don't manufacture them anymore, straying to the 5-20RA style.

Aaah yes I just checked the CEC site...

"The designation for receptacle configuration type 5-20RA ("T-slot") has been revised to 5-20R throughout the Code, and the configuration previously designated as 5-20R is now designated 5-20RA to recognize that this configuration is being phased out. Similarly, the designations for 6-20R and 6-20RA configurations have been interchanged throughout the Code."

I didn't receive that in my list of CEC changes...Good for me to know that *scoff*. lol. I'm too cheap to buy a new code book again after JUST buying one little more than a year ago. Looks like this was the only change I didn't know though.

 

[Esoteric]

Also looking for the connections in the dark, it is much easier to get your finger in the arc of a twist lock than a stage pin.

Mike

 

[Esoteric]

As an electrician I do have to say that I don't believe Edisons should ever be used for professional lighting. I've seen it a couple of times, but it scares me. The thought of someone running a 2.4kw load though an orange extension cord makes me cringe. At that 20a rated edisons are expensive and hard to get your hands on.

Most theatre spaces I've seen in this part of Canada use Twist-lock. They work well (just don't treat them like they are invincible). I love the fact that they lock, and they are actually rated for 20a (well the 20a ones are). But with twist-lock it is IMPOSSIBLE to interface a 15a or 30a connector into a 20a one. There are different designs for twist-lock connectors for a VERY GOOD REASON.

I've dealt VERY LITTLE with stage-pin connectors, I love the fact that they are flat-ish and are rated. Not to mention the fact that they are only used in one application unlike the others.



I don't think I've ever seen one come apart that was twisted-together correctly. I don't doubt that it is possible, if the pins have been smacked around ALOT and abused and the person didn't make sure it was locked.

for example during teardowns when cables are being tossed down I always make sure someone is down there to catch the connectors so they don't smack against the floor and get broken (or bent pins).

And for stagepin, one thing keeps getting said that is important


Not everyone knows how to do it, or that it has to be done. And with the design of the stagepin connector, if the pins are partially exposed it doesn't take much for it to go BOOM. That's why the pins of a twistlock are oriented in the way they are.

We took out a rig of twistlock, and it was a nightmare. After about a month and a half (probably 24 shows or so) the twist locks began to fail. We spent more time on that tour replacing plugs than anything else.

Mike

 

[mrb]

We took out a rig of twistlock, and it was a nightmare. After about a month and a half (probably 24 shows or so) the twist locks began to fail. We spent more time on that tour replacing plugs than anything else.

Mike

how were they failing? Was it broken pins on the males? Or melting females?

 

[TimMiller]

I commonly use all 3.
All of my movers except for the ones that use 208, have Edison connectors on them, so they can simply be plugged into the wall. The 208V movers use L6-20 twist locks. All of my par cans have Edison, so they can be plugged in the wall, for simple things, i have soco to Edison fan outs for the bigger shows.
Almost all of the theaters down here have stage pin, along with all of my dimmer racks so i can send them out and they will match up. My dimmers all also have soco outs so i can fan them out to Edison if i am using my par's. I also have lots of stage pin to Edison adapters for connecting movers to dimmers (using true non dim modules of course), along with connecting up specials such as Christmas lights to dimmers.

I hate theaters that have twist locks. My biggest problem is that especially in high schools people dont know that you have to give them a twist, and they end up melting. I have also had a problem of the SO cable slowly working its way out over time, due to the screws coming loose.

 

[church]

Most of the theatres round here are 20A twistlock, the schools, colleges and univesity theatres use either 20A twistlosk or 15A Edison but mainly edison. I have not seen stage pin except on gear provided by PRG.

My equipment is configured with 15A edisons although I keep 20A twistlocks for those customers who require them. Most other rental shops are 20A twistlock and 15A edison.

The edisons are great for use in hotel ballrooms, church halls etc where edison outlets are the norm and which provide many customers.

The problem with orange extension cords is they are only supposed to be used in domestic applications and should not be a factor in choosing a connector on stage or in an industrial setting. Ontario electrical code only allows for "hard" or "extra hard" flexible cable on stage (Rule 44-252, Rule 44-320, rule 44-350 and rule 44-354). Orange, yellow and tinsel cords do not meet these requirements.

 

[gordonmcleod]

CSA used to insist on type SO cable for extensions which has a thicker oil resistant rubber
The Orange type cable is usually SJ if one is lucky enough to find a rating on it at all or a CSA/ULc stamp

 

[Sayen]

Just for fun, the first theater I worked in used three different connections in different parts of the house - plain 15amp Edison over the stage, 15amp twistlocks onstage floor, and 20amp twistlocks on the lighting bridge, or something like that. It was a nightmare trying to maintain a healthy stock of quality adapters, and after fighting with those plugs I prefer the 2P&G by far. Much easier to work with in the dark, and no one on campus wants to borrow my lights since they don't have the right connector, and I play dumb when it comes to adapters.

 

[Esoteric]

how were they failing? Was it broken pins on the males? Or melting females?

Cable coming out of the plug, smashed plugs (because they are so large they kept getting in the way), broken pins on the males, females coming loose and not gripping anymore, which let the pins slip out, which led to the female plugs melting, etc.

Mike

 

[mrb]

Cable coming out of the plug, smashed plugs (because they are so large they kept getting in the way), broken pins on the males, females coming loose and not gripping anymore, which let the pins slip out, which led to the female plugs melting, etc.

Mike

if cable was pulling out of the plug, they werent assembled right (assuming quality plugs)

 

[Sony]

2P&G (Stage Pin) is by far my favorite connector, mostly for it's ease of use, robustness and ability to lay flat on the ground. I've always had trouble with bent and broken pins on both Edison and Twistlock connectors as well as loose connections. One of the great advantages of Stage Pin is how much more difficult it is to bend pins or cause damage to the connector, also the ability to spread pins to keep good contact is a great advantage. The pins on Stage Pin also seem to be more substantial physically with more surface area for contact which reduces connector resistance and reduces connector tempurature and chances for melting.

The one disadvantage I believe for Stage Pin is safety and the fact that in curious and playful hands it could be plugged in to a live circuit improperly, leaving one or even two of the pins on the male end of the cable exposed and possibly live. It's this reason that I believe that Stage Pin should only be used in High School, College and Professional environments which are likely to understand that electricity hurts. In Middle School and Elementary School I would definitely suggest Twistlock.

 

[mnfreelancer]

In both the old middle school that I attended and the "new" middle school I worked in briefly we had L5-20 twist-lock. In my highschool, built in 2001 we had 2P&G and I loved it!

Now, working in the Minneapolis rental market, 5-15 Edison seems to be the norm almost across the board. Dimmer racks I've rented have been 5-15, our lights are all 5-15 and most of the production company conventionals are 5-15. One production company we work with frequently does, however, use L6-20 for their 208V movers and 15K projectors. Motors use twist lock too, of course.

 

[mrb]

I remember in high school (mid 90s) our theater had twistlocks, but they were the old non-nema 20amp ones, where the tang on the ground pin stuck out instead of being turned in. Those were a nightmare since A they were impossible to find, and B 90% of the inventory was the old style ones with bakelite housings that would crack when dropped on the ground exposing live parts.