Conventional Fixtures 360Q clutch brake verses clutch cam upgrade

ship

Senior Team Emeritus
Premium Member
Was going to post about “service call” methods for 360 and 360Q fixtures. After two pages alone on the lamp cap assembly for what to look at or do... figured nobody would read it and the rest of the how to.

This was based off my current service call to some samples from all generations and my figuring out how to easily extract the shutters both from the fixture for re-surfacing and cleaning, and in preserving the fiber washer handles for future use by way of extraction. (Anyone interested in this full service call method I use should respond to that part in request for interest in something that would be long in detail.) Did a bit of study for instance into how to best remove the fiber washers from the shutters, this with about a 90% saving ratio once figured out. That as with shutters, spreader plates etc in service call.

In this post instead I’ll do something more short and interesting - immediate to the industry - at least them stuck with clutch break type clamps to the fixtures. Believe they are now discontinued but not sure on that. During an off-line discussion with Les, I noted his resistance to clutch break fixtures.... yea, especially if replacement parts are not available, they would be problematic. This much less if in use, if you don’t use them properly they will break. My initial thoughts was that it wasn’t possible to make a clutch break fixture into a clutch cam fixture... but got to thinking about it today and tried a 6x12 assembly in making it into one. Wasn’t perfect in doing so, but I did learn how to do it from that concept, and what I did in mounting a clutch cam to a clutch break fixture will at least free up a few clutch breaks I was short on for other fixtures or future needs or resale needs. Once I refined in how to... Len perhaps won’t need to resale or give away his old clutch Cam fixtures.

First, the 6x22 barrel mount fixture if clutch break, cannot be best modified for clutch cam. Different assembly and not enough metal. On the pineapple mount fixtures though.. It is possible to mount a clutch cam to the casting without a huge amount of work or even disassembly of the fixture.

First step, remove the yoke and install the clutch break onto the clutch cam mount. It will need a spacer so as to tension this plate onto the fixture. This is for marking of holes purposes. Problem in what I did was that it’s a 3/8" hole for the clutch break and a 5/16-18 threaded hole at the center. I tried but couldn’t fully center this clutch cam on the hole. Short of center means your fixture won’t work right- been there, done that before in variation of where it will align.

Gotta be able to both center that 3/8" hole on the 5/16-18 tapped hole, and have sufficient pressure on this break plate so as to mark for it’s additional holes. Gotta have at least a 5/16" spring lock washer so as to tension under the plate, but also need a 5/16" bolt and standoff with 3/8" O.D. so as to center the plate. This was the mistake I made. Of that standoff and bolt, washers will than be needed so as to tension the 5/16" lock washer, around that 3/8" standoff for tension.

Once now properly tensioned, you can scribe your holes and mark for drilling the center. I use a center punch for such things, than a 1/16" drill bit so as to thru drill with oil once the center punch hole is expanded to 1/16". Next step is to remove the mounting and thru drill out my holes for a #29 drill bit, than tap the hole out for a 8-32 tapped hole.

Given the holes are now centered but not counter sunk for the clutch cam, a 60 degree x ½" countersink bit is next employed to it’s full width (cutting oil needed as with all for good cuts and tapping.)

I like stainless steel for high temperature use and find that for a #8 screw only a truss head type screw would work with such a fitting... Didn’t have any in stock so instead put in some pan-head screws and ground them flat to the plate of the clutch cam. High temperature threadlocker was also applied. This especially in the case of non-stainless screws and in general will both lock the screw to the aluminum casting and prevent dissimilar materials damage.

My problems in this concept was that I didn’t properly center the hole of the clutch break on the hole. Other than that, it is a feasible and don’t take long to do process. Get that hole centered better than I did by eyeballing it... you have in mechanical means a clutch cam assembly that will work. This all assuming yokes that will work with the clutch cam.

Easy project to do, only challenges are in making that clutch break centered - it needs to be so more so than by eyeballing it, and in getting proper tension so the plate don’t move, than scribing the holes and making them on center.

Can be done once geared up for it and fairly easy to do - this without even taking apart the fixture as long as you blow it out later. Easy fix.
 
Thanks Ship! It's very possible that you know more about these fixtures than the factory does.

When you do this conversion, is it necessary to buy a new yoke as well? I would guess the answer is yes, since the width will be different, and you need an additional hole for the lock knob.

Re: framing shutter removal. I've removed several shutters from my fixtures for resurfacing or swapping (one light may have 3 bad shutters but one good shutter, while another may have 3 good shutters and one bad one - I'll just carry the good shutter over to the 'best' fixture).
Before I had a pop riveter, I would remove the entire gate assembly from the fixture and take it over to ye 'ole bench grinder. I found that by grinding off the excess rivet sticking out of the insulator (not the head of the rivet, the other side), the shutter can be removed and replaced quite easily as long as the spacers and (sometimes) the gobo slot have been removed. The grinding process does remove a lot of material, but I have found that it still leaves enough so that the insulated handle won't fall off. I've done this with a few dozen shutters and haven't had a single failure. After grinding down one bad shutter as a test, I did a little destruction test to see what it would take to get that handle off after the rivet had been ground flat. Conclusion: it took quite a bit of pounding with a hammer, and some twisting and turning with a set of linesman pliers to finally get that insulated grip off, and when it finally did come off, it came off in pieces.
 
Last edited:
Not know more than Altman, more there is certain upgrades the end user can do, and others that are a bit difficult to do thus Altman wouldn't be best in advising to do.

New yokes are on the way given no carriage bolt holes... much less yokes in stock. You are corret.

My testing was probably similar to yours - drilling don't work etc. (3/16" bit or the more proper #11 bit), except I took that 3/16" cold punch to the sander and ground a little down from it, than to the wire wheel to smoothe it out some. Than I oiled it up some. Grinding or sanding plus oil is probably the key in easy to remove even with linsemens' to help over stuck. After both sides of the handle were mostly flush by way of sanding, or at least the oval head side as most important, I could with a gap on the vise and a mini-sledge hammer with the ground down cold chisel ... easy enough to get out. Took a bit of time but easy enough without damage. Gotta pound that rivet from the front side of the rivet - that with the oval head one grinds away for success. (Also assuming not 5/32" or 1/8" rivet in use.)

A few pounds and that rivet is gone. Yes your punch will without doubt get stuck but easy enough to grab it in linsemens pliers to as to extract the pin.

What's removed/extracted probably will need a light sanding back to flat surface so as to retain onto the next use. The shutter will also often need to be pounded flt again and re-drilled for #11 drill bt before re-use.

Re-Insall.. aluminum rivets with aluminum shaft once all parts are redrilled out with the #11 bit. Than once on (after install on the fixture), re-pound that rivet home with the heavy hammer on the anvil.

Overall- as long as you pound the rivet from the correct side, it is fairly easy to extract it without damage. Than drill out it and the shutter hole for the rivet in use.


Might also differ on what's good or can be saved some in method. No shutters carried over to another without a service call and coating.

Anyway, something in my techniue if not clear, to flush out further. No matter how good it looks, all for me get a sanding of their leading edge, than a surface buffing level sanding so as to make more mirror like. Various techniues done etc.
 
Thanks for the tips, ship. And if all you have to send me is a clutch cam 360Q, that will be perfectly fine by me.
 
Got six fixtures, one the 6x22 cannot be upgraded give mount. One is already clutch cam, another I want to save as clutch break. Otherwise the two fixtures available (one your's otherwise, if you don't mind I would like to refine and perfect this concept.) Thinking it will work out really well and be more what you want and prefer. It is possible to make a clutch break fixture into a clutch cam.
 
If of use, from McMaster Carr #97524A034 or 97524A116 - have to figure out which is best for rivet, one of them works really well for such a rivet, but it depends on the thickness of the washers in use which rivet to use. Both are sealing and pound a bit tighter and more flat given hammer and anvil surface. Big fan of pounding especialy aluminum rivets for final tension - steel shank aluminum rivets often either get too tight and break the fiber washer or won't break in final tension.

On the proper mounting of the clutch break, just ordered a 9368T116 for use with a thick but normal washer below the clutch break countersunk standoff's and a 92510A798 that I might have to grind down a little to properly fit as a sacer in matching up. That with the thumb screw as a jig should work really well for centering the hole on the plate to that of the tapped hole on the fixture sufficient to scribe the hole. Than just center punch,1/16" pilot hole and either riveting or drilled and tapped as above. Should work fine.
 
Was going to post about “service call” methods for 360 and 360Q fixtures. After two pages alone on the lamp cap assembly for what to look at or do... figured nobody would read it and the rest of the how to.

Just thought I would note that I would be interested in reading of what you have to say if you still have it and want to post it. I think those that deal with the fixtures would also be interested in perhaps comparing methods, and noting a new technique or two, or sharing their own.
 
Hard to imagine something being more comprehensive than the Collaborative Article, Lighting Fixture Maintenance.
 
Hard to imagine something being more comprehensive than the Collaborative Article, Lighting Fixture Maintenance.

As it would be More specialized though, it is more interesting from a reading perspective (to me at least - nicer to have a more detailed picture in my head). With more focused and refined details and thought processing going in to it, it seems to me to be a different thing and more open to discussion and review. I think it is easier for a group to comment and discuss technique on, since it is dealing in specific instruments in this case instead of the broad category of general fixture maintenance.
 
Last edited:
agreed that the comprehensive post is useful. On the other hand working on some Iris's tonight.. never realized that there was two different sizes of them before. This much I more hate re-assembling an iris than almost anything else. Figured out a few tips in doing so tonight - this when you only absolutely have to do so. My Wife on the other hand in more commonly having to deal with them... thinks they are easy. Think I found a tip or two on dealing with them dissembled or not that's useful, this amongst other more 360Q fixtures currently worked on that would indeed probably be better posted as part of the data base in a seperate section than as a normal post.

Good help there in thanks, for the wanting such tips and techniques saved, but in adding to what is already preseted specific to the fixture. Will work on such a fixture care type guideline and put it in thru the fixture care part of the forum. This if you would like following your editing should you like to help make one of my long posts into something useful and more easy to read.

I'll write it up, anyone willing to edit it for best posting? This with experience in presenting other ideas for how to do it, other options etc, in one unified how' to presentation? See Clutch break verses clutch cam concept.... I'm a doer but perhaps not the best presenter in doing so for relaying how to get it done at times.
 
Last edited:

Users who are viewing this thread

Back