50amp Hubbell to L6-30

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coolsvens

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Hi all,

Wondering if anyone has seen or made the following connector.

I have a 50 amp Hubbel CS3864C connector, and it comes from a cam 50amp breaker, 208V that hooks into my company power. I usually use for my chain motor power. We have a projector that requires 208V, 30 amps, but I don't have enough power in our projection booth. The projector has L6-30 on it's tail. I wanted to find out if anyone has seen an adapter from the 50Amp to L6-30 twist lock or knows why it couldn't be made. Thanks.
 

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Footer

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You could make one, but it needs a 30 amp 2 pole breaker in between the two connectors because you are stepping down. If this is a permanent install, maybe you could get your distro modified to give you an L6-30 right in the distro.
 

Focus

Active Member
If this is temporary,( a rental, one off, whatever), You can make an adapter, don't worry about the breaker, you don't change a 20a breaker to a smaller one just because your alarm clock only draws 1 amp, or your toaster only draws 7a.

If you have to buy connectors, its probably cheaper to just put a matching male connector on the projector.

If you are installing this projector, I would run a new circuit(at least eventually).
 

Chris15

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If this is temporary,( a rental, one off, whatever), You can make an adapter, don't worry about the breaker, you don't change a 20a breaker to a smaller one just because your alarm clock only draws 1 amp, or your toaster only draws 7a.

And that's the kind of thinking that causes fires...

The governing factor in breaker selection is generally the conductor size of the installed wiring, and it's all about stopping it from overheating and igniting inside your wall.
What could happen with your proposed "solution" is that there is 50A being pulled through the wiring through some fault occurring and the supply breaker may NEVER trip. In the interim though, your projector's supply lead will become the fuse when it melts and what collateral damage is it going to cause then?

The nuances of the full reasoning behind the codes being the way that they are is more complex than this, but this is one of the key guiding principles...
 

Focus

Active Member
They are not installing smaller wiring inside a wall. They are using a projector that draws less than 30a on a circuit that is rated for UP TO 50a. PERFECTLY SAFE.

This is exactly the same thing as using a small tabletop projector that draws, say, 5a with a tiny 18ga IEC cord, and plugging it into normal 20a wall outlet. ALSO SAFE.
 

Focus

Active Member
And that's the kind of thinking that causes fires...


What could happen with your proposed "solution" is that there is 50A being pulled through the wiring through some fault occurring and the supply breaker may NEVER trip.

This is why Electronic devices have there own protection built in to them. These may be breakers, fuses, MOV's in the power supply, or other limiting circuits, that are designed interrupt power in case of an internal fault. Yes sometimes more catastrophic failures happen, but in most cases it will result in a dead short, and any breaker will trip.

Stop sticking knives in your toaster when the bread gets stuck.
 

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PERFECTLY SAFE.

This is exactly the same thing as using a small tabletop projector that draws, say, 5a with a tiny 18ga IEC cord, and plugging it into normal 20a wall outlet. ALSO SAFE.

Ya, but its not. It is against code, period. If you want it done correctly, you need to have a breaker that steps down the load, period. That connector is rated for 30 amps, therefore the circuit must be able to be de-energized if more then 30 amps is being pulled through the circuit. Building an adapter for this without the proper breaker/fuse in place is wreckless. You never know what the next guy is going to do or how long you will have your job. It does not cost that more to do this right. Your connecting a 10,000 dollar plus projector, the correct interconnect will cost you a hundred or two.... no reason to play games here.
 

Focus

Active Member
Ya, but its not. It is against code, period. If you want it done correctly, you need to have a breaker that steps down the load, period. That connector is rated for 30 amps, therefore the circuit must be able to be de-energized if more then 30 amps is being pulled through the circuit. Building an adapter for this without the proper breaker/fuse in place is wreckless. You never know what the next guy is going to do or how long you will have your job. It does not cost that more to do this right. Your connecting a 10,000 dollar plus projector, the correct interconnect will cost you a hundred or two.... no reason to play games here.

You're simply wrong. Most consumer devices have a connector devices is a 15A connector, and many have wire gauge rated MUCH lower, yet the standard circuit in the us Uses a 20A breaker. The circut breaker limits the current for the wire gauge(among other factors) in the Building, not for the wire/connector/whatever random thing you plug into the outlet.

Also a breaker does NOT "step down the load." The load is whatever your device draws, and does not change based on breaker rating, wire gauge or otherwise.
The fact that you even posted this demonstrated a fundamental misunderstanding of electricity.

Also, somewhat beside the point, I would like to note that I recommended using the 50A male connector that mates with the current outlet that the OP has available.
 

Focus

Active Member
More to the heart of the matter; your understanding seems to be backwards. The circuit is rated at 50A, the projector draws 30A . That is okay. If they wanted to use a 20A connector and draw 30A through it, that would not be okay.

I think there is confusion here. Wiring an outlet that is rated for 30A, to a 50A breaker is against code. Putting a connector rated for UP TO 50A on a projector that draws 30A is just fine. Absolutely.

Making an adapter for a temporary situation, may "not to code"(although I have bought commercially available adapters that do just that), but is not unsafe.
 

Chris15

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if you steadfastly believe you are right, then we are never going to reeducate you.
@STEVETERRY could come in and quote the NEC having contributed to writing it and you still wouldn't believe him.

The problem is not about normal operating conditions. The problem is about fault conditions. And they are not always within a device, they could be in a connector, the cable could get piereced by something, a bunch of variables exist.

Unless you have an engineering degree and can prove through the maths of fault analysis etc etc. that what you are proposing is safe, then I urge you to consider the fact that the people who wrote the code HAVE done all of this and that's why the code is the way it is...
 

Focus

Active Member
Chris, I assume you are directing you comment toward me? You guys seem to not be reading my posts. Can you please refer me to the "Code" to which you keep (not)quoting?

Anyone who thinks that a Breaker "steps down the load" should not be trusted. Period. I will not quote "code," because I, as well as apparently everyone else in this conversation, have not taken the time to thoroughly memorize all electrical codes, but I will tell you my OPINION on the convenient and SAFE options.


YOU CAN PLUG A PROJECTOR THAT DRAWS 30A INTO A 50A CIRCUIT. IF YOU DISAGREE YOU ARE WRONG. To say otherwise is like saying that a house cannot have 200a service because the grid can support 16 Billion GIGA-Amps.
 

Focus

Active Member
Who knew? all these years I've been using 575w fixtures on 2.4k dimmers, I should have modified them to have 4.8A breakers!

Chris, I keep giving practical examples, you you and Footer have not acknowledged any of them, or given me ANY response of why they are right or wrong. You have not provided any examples to the contrary, codes, magic fairy dust, or hoodoo spells. You are probably using a computer right now, how many amps does it draw, and for what amperage is the circuit it is plugged into rated for?
 

Focus

Active Member
Also Chris, Please don't be so arrogant as to assume what I would or would not believe. Yes name dropping is fun, but because you "know a guy" does not mean you know what you are talking about. Please respond with some actual information, facts... hell, maybe a link, or god forbid even a book, and I will gladly take that in to consideration, do some research and reconsider my opinions, and come back as a more informed individual, But simply saying I'm wrong, and "you know a guy" is a pretty poor argument.
 

DuckJordan

Well-Known Member
Focus you are digging yourself a hole that I'm not sure you'll be able to climb out of... And just so you have a practical situation I was doing a roof gig the only power I needed was 30 amps of power for my motor distro. The genny was a 200 amp service. It had a breaker on the genny, and on the distro. But the electrician, who knows the code required we had a breaker box that took the power and limited it to 30 amps, not because if connectors. But because of bare wire. The cable I had was not rated to carry 200 amps. So even though my distro would have breakered at 30 amps I still had to let them hook a breaker box to limit the feed to my cable to 30 amps.
 

chausman

Chase
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Without that additional breaker, you're potentially putting up to 50a through a connector only rated for 30a, and nothing to cut the power before something nasty happens.

At least that's my super-simple interpretation.
 

Footer

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Chris, I assume you are directing you comment toward me? You guys seem to not be reading my posts. Can you please refer me to the "Code" to which you keep (not)quoting?

Anyone who thinks that a Breaker "steps down the load" should not be trusted. Period. I will not quote "code," because I, as well as apparently everyone else in this conversation, have not taken the time to thoroughly memorize all electrical codes, but I will tell you my OPINION on the convenient and SAFE options.


YOU CAN PLUG A PROJECTOR THAT DRAWS 30A INTO A 50A CIRCUIT. IF YOU DISAGREE YOU ARE WRONG. To say otherwise is like saying that a house cannot have 200a service because the grid can support 16 Billion GIGA-Amps.

Yes, I said "step down load", after a 16 hour gig today, 16 hour gig yesterday, etc... I should have said "Have to have a breaker that steps down the current carrying capacity of that circuit". Forgive me.

You can not build an adapter to take a 50 amp connector and turn it into a 30 amp connector and it be legal according to the NEC without a breaker.

Changing the connector to a larger capacity connector could/should void the UL listing of the device and opens up a whole other can of worms.

We have been doing this for years in this industry. It is the reason that a lunch box has breakers on it.

NEC 520.69 forbids such an adapter (Thanks @STEVETERRY)

520.69 Adapters. Adapters, two-fers, and other single- and
multiple-circuit outlet devices shall comply with 520.69(A),
(B), and (C).
(A) No Reduction in Current Rating. Each receptacle
and its corresponding cable shall have the same current and
voltage rating as the plug supplying it. It shall not be utilized
in a stage circuit with a greater current rating.
(B) Connectors. All connectors shall be wired in accordance
with 520.67.
(C) Conductor Type. Conductors for adapters and twofers
shall be listed, extra-hard usage or listed, hard usage
(junior hard service) cord. Hard usage (junior hard service)
cord shall be restricted in overall length to 1.0 m (3.3 ft).
 
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Focus

Active Member
Again, please provide something constructive. DuckJordan, that is not how electricity works. Your Load does not change based on the size of the generator. You said your cable was rated for 30A(10ga) and and your breaker on your distro was 30A, this is all fine, But an additional breaker box @30 amps is unnecessarily redundant. Yes, you have cable that goes from your 30a distro to a 200A gennie, but because you'r distro has a 30a breaker it will never exceed its rating before the breaker trips. And NO the box they hooked up did not limit you to 30a any more than the 30A breaker on your distro.


And I have dealt with plenty of "electricians" who have the contract for a particular area of town, or Building, or city, that did not know their ass, from Ohms law.
 

Focus

Active Member
Do you own a toaster? if so, flip it over and look at the power consumption. 2 slice will be about 7A. Look at the power cable; it will probably be 16ga copper, roughly 10-13a rating, Two Prong Edison connector? 15A rating. Regular duplex with two vertical holes and one sideways D shape ground? This is a 15A outlet. Go to your basement, OH MY! A 20A breaker!

I rest my case.
 

Focus

Active Member
Thanks for posting SOMETHING referencing a code, however a direct link would be more useful; a Google search turns up mostly idiots like us posting on forums, and GFCI outlets, which would be great if i were updating the electrical outlets in my bathroom.

I guess I don't rest my case, because there are fundamentals here that people don't understand.
 
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