575W & 750W Source 4

[icewolf08]

Re: source 4 575 vs 750

I seem to remember some of ours having screws there, just pull that out? It should be noted (and probably will be tomorrow) that this probably voids A your warentee and B the UL rating, making your fixture potentially illegal.

Usually the screw that is in the burner assembly covers the hole for the extra pin on a 77V HPL lamp used for dimmer doubling. This existed on both older, non-750 fixtures and newer fixtures. The third pin on a 77V lamp is on the opposite side of the lamp than the pin on the HPL750, so removing the screw probably won't do you much good.

If you upgrade your fixture with the retrofit kit and a new burn base, you shouldn't void anything on the fixture. If you are upgrading older fixtures to accept an HPL750, chances are it is out of any warranty it had.

Now, if you are drilling holes in the burner assembly, you might be negating the UL listing of the fixture. Whether this is a good idea or not is up to you, however I know plenty of end users who have made this simple modification. As the third pin on the HPL750 is purely there for alignment and designation, it carries no electrical current. Modifying the burner assembly, if done carefully and precisely, won't alter the electrical properties of the fixture, and should not render the fixture dangerous. If one were going to make this modification, one would probably want to dissemble the burner assembly before drilling.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

Re: source 4 575 vs 750

Can you do this with new Source4 Jrs?

No, they are still 575 only. I believe it's because they are too small to dissipate the heat of a 750 HPL.

 

[derekleffew]

Re: source 4 575 vs 750

Can you do this with new Source4 Jrs?

One can (and one un-named member here has) put a 1000W FEL in an Altman 3.5Q, but that doesn't mean one should. Due to the expensive glass reflector, I wouldn't put a 750W in an S4-jr or MCM Par, in or out of warranty. Voiding the UL Listing should be prohibition reason enough.

 

[avery]

small metal piece on Source Four lamp

Hey everyone,

Just ran into an issue and wanted to get some insight on it.

Over the winter another staff member ordered some 750w lamps for our ETC source fours. Today I went to replace some lamps in older fixtures and noticed there is a tiny little metal pipe at the base of the lamp close to the prongs. This prevents the lamp from being plugged into the fixture.

Does this mean it's the incorrect lamp for this fixture? Everything else about the lamp fits the base perfectly except this little metal piece. My fixtures don't have a little hole in them for the piece to go down into and from how tight they seem to be attached to the bulb I don't think this is supposed to come off.

I don't deal with specials all the time, but this is a first for me.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[sk8rsdad]

Re: small metal piece on Source Four lamp

The pin exists to prevent inserting the lamp into a base that is not designed for it. There are 2 pins for the HPL, one intended to prevent a 750W lamp from being inserted into a base rated for 575W, and the other reduces the risk of a 77V lamp being installed in a 120V socket.

 

[derekleffew]

Re: small metal piece on Source Four lamp

... into a base rated for 575W...

Socket. The base is part of the lamp. Dammit.

avery, see these threads:
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/16148-575w-750w-source-4-a.html
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/9435-750w-lamp-575w-source-4-a.html
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/24912-source-4-575-vs-750-a.html
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/8894-source-4-lamp-caps.html
and
Differences between a S4-750 and S4-575 - Electronic Theatre Controls

 

[marmer]

Re: small metal piece on Source Four lamp

Yes. We have lots of these. The 750W base will be labeled "750" and will have an extra opening for that pin.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

Re: small metal piece on Source Four lamp

I seem to recall an easy way to distinguish a 575 lamp cap from a 750 is that the 750's have the plastic handle.

How often do I run into someone that thinks a 750 rated Source 4 is lamped at 750 because it has a '750' sticker on it? All the freakin time.

 

[DuckJordan]

That's not a sure fire I have a few 575s that have the plastic handles.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

 

[avery]

Re: small metal piece on Source Four lamp

Thanks everyone. I guess I'm just used to the 575w we mostly use so I haven't seen the 750w.

Thanks again.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

Re: small metal piece on Source Four lamp

That's not a sure fire I have a few 575s that have the plastic handles.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

That's what I figured. It was more of an "in general" statement.

 

[church]

Re: small metal piece on Source Four lamp

I seem to recall an easy way to distinguish a 575 lamp cap from a 750 is that the 750's have the plastic handle.

How often do I run into someone that thinks a 750 rated Source 4 is lamped at 750 because it has a '750' sticker on it? All the freakin time.

I have some 750's which do not have the plastic handle - a customer broke some handles and frankly I did not feel the need to buy replacement handles.

The difference between the 750W and the 575W burners apart from the hole in the burner assembly is the 750W socket uses thicker wire.

 

[Synchronize]

Re: small metal piece on Source Four lamp

I was under the impression that ETC's original intention was to have two different caps--one with smaller gauge wires to only accommodate 575w--but that the idea was scrapped an that all caps (or perhaps scrapped after x amount of years, so all recent caps) have 12 AWG wire, thus being safe for a 750w lamp. I know I have a few caps that do not have the hole for the pin that do have 12 AWG wire, in which case I take a pair of channel locks and break the little sucker off.

Perhaps I'm wrong about all (or all recent) caps having 12 AWG wire?

 

[bdkdesigns]

Re: small metal piece on Source Four lamp

Are these full sized or Jr. fixtures? Before even thinking of breaking the pin, make sure the fixture itself is even rated for 750w. Personally, I wouldn't break that pin off either way. Your just asking for trouble down the road when someone else puts it into the wrong fixture. I always took the extra time to base swap when I needed a 750 in an instrument that could handle it but just had an older base on it.

 

[icewolf08]

Re: small metal piece on Source Four lamp

I was under the impression that ETC's original intention was to have two different caps--one with smaller gauge wires to only accommodate 575w--but that the idea was scrapped an that all caps (or perhaps scrapped after x amount of years, so all recent caps) have 12 AWG wire, thus being safe for a 750w lamp. I know I have a few caps that do not have the hole for the pin that do have 12 AWG wire, in which case I take a pair of channel locks and break the little sucker off.

Perhaps I'm wrong about all (or all recent) caps having 12 AWG wire?

Are these full sized or Jr. fixtures? Before even thinking of breaking the pin, make sure the fixture itself is even rated for 750w. Personally, I wouldn't break that pin off either way. Your just asking for trouble down the road when someone else puts it into the wrong fixture. I always took the extra time to base swap when I needed a 750 in an instrument that could handle it but just had an older base on it.

You should definitely make sure that your fixture is rtated for 750 watts if you want to use the 750 lamp. However, AFAIK, all full size source four fixtures can use the 750 lamp as long as you update the wiring in the lamp cap. If you have really old source fours you can even get the lamp cap retrofit kit that has the retaining clip to hold the lamp in place and has the hols for the 750W and 77v lamps pre drilled. If you don't need the retrofit kit, once you update the wiring you can just drall a hole to fit the third pin on the 750W lamp. This should be much safer and easier than breaking the pins.

 

[bdkdesigns]

Re: small metal piece on Source Four lamp

If I remember correctly, just the junior line and the Par MCM are only rated to 575w. I hated needing the pin on the Junior because I did a lot of dimmer doubling in a space with Juniors. I had to do a lot of base swapping so I could those darn 550w/77v lamps in there.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

Re: small metal piece on Source Four lamp

So I went back reading through the several old threads upon this topic, here's what I've gathered.

-Some 750 caps don't fit on 575 bodies because the older bodies had cap alignment nibs. (Unless you want to grind off the nibs)

-The 575's were wired with 18 AWG, 750's are wired with 16 AWG.

-Newer caps have an internal light baffle.

-A 575 body may experience paint loss if a 750 is used in it.

I found nothing to suggest a 575 dichroic reflector can't handle a 750.

When it comes to breaking off the pin or drilling a hole for it, now, I"m not going to stop you, just be aware that such independent modification of equipment changes the approved and tested design of a fixture or lamp.

And yes, the Juniors and MCM PARs are 575 ONLY!

 

[ptero]

Re: small metal piece on Source Four lamp

You cannot count on all full sized Source Fours being 750 capable. fwiw, we have both 26* and 36* Source Fours. Because the 26's are older, they have the older style cap (w/o handles, just rounded) and are rated 575 only. When we started buying 36's, the newer cap design was in place and they are all tagged as 750 capable. So we have plenty of 26's that are 575 only. Point is, if a Source Four is old enough it may not be wired for 750.

In our case all 26's have no handle, and all 36's have the handle. The caps/burners are not interchangeable and all are lamped at 575. We are careful to avoid swapping lenses and losing the handle/no handle distinction. It's easier on the interns that way!

 

[Les]

Re: small metal piece on Source Four lamp

Some 750 caps don't fit on 575 bodies because the older bodies had cap alignment knobs.

On the topic of keyed lamp caps, I believe ETC has advised that the end-user can grind away the extra stud so that the new and old caps are interchangeable between fixture bodies. Don't get this confused with pins on the lamp base though -- I think their directions were for the cap only.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

Re: small metal piece on Source Four lamp

On the topic of keyed lamp caps, I believe ETC has advised that the end-user can grind away the extra stud so that the new and old caps are interchangeable between fixture bodies. Don't get this confused with pins on the lamp base though -- I think their directions were for the cap only.

Yes I know that.