575W & 750W Source 4

Re: small metal piece on Source Four lamp

You cannot count on all full sized Source Fours being 750 capable. fwiw, we have both 26* and 36* Source Fours. Because the 26's are older, they have the older style cap (w/o handles, just rounded) and are rated 575 only. When we started buying 36's, the newer cap design was in place and they are all tagged as 750 capable. So we have plenty of 26's that are 575 only. Point is, if a Source Four is old enough it may not be wired for 750.

In factory new condition, this may be true, however, as I mentioned, it is possible to update the wiring in your fixtures. In fact, odds are that if you have ever had to replace the lamp sockets in your fixtures then you already have.

As far as the burn bases not fitting on fixtures, as has been mentioned, the ETC factory has said that it is fine to remove the nubs on the fixture body that prevent the newer caps from fitting. This difference came from a change in the casting machinery. It has nothing to do with the fixtures being stamped 750 or not.

Aside from possible flaky paint, there should be no reason that an older source four can't take a 750 lamp as long as you have updated the wiring.
 
S4 Ellipsoidals

Are all ETC S4 Ellipsoidal barrels, lenses, etc., rated for 750 watt lamps and only the end cap is rated 750 or 575? If the barrels, etc., are limited, how can you tell BESIDES the label on the outside, which are missing on many of the fixtures I own?
 
Re: S4 Ellipsoidals

Thanks. I was asking because I probably need to replace a couple caps. Might as well get 750 for them.
 
Re: source 4 575 vs 750

I also have some new 750W S4 lekos, the socket assembly looks the same and I think they will swap easily, but I need to convert a few of the older ones.

My issue is that I bought some 750w lamps (HPL750-C) and they don't even fit into the old socket, there is an extra metal pin. the older lekos do not have a place for this pin, but the newer 750w fixtures do.

Is there a 750w lamp that does not have this extra pin? and is the wiring in the socket assembly really not able to handle the additional 250w? they are not S4 jr, just older full sized S4 lekos

If the cap does not have the hole, then it is NOT a 750W rated cap. All 750W lamps have that pin for a reason-- it's so you don't try and insert the lamp into a base cap that is only rated for 575W and start a fire. Buy the upgraded/newer 750W caps and you'll be fine. As already noted, the older sockets had 18AWG wire and you want to switch to the improved, newer sockets with the 16AWG wire for higher wattages.
 
Re: source 4 575 vs 750

As already noted, the older sockets had 18AWG wire and you want to switch to the improved, newer sockets with the 16AWG wire for higher wattages.

Well, our documentation from 1992 says the original caps had 16AWG wire, but as we went through a number of revisions and a couple of manufacturers of sockets over the years, it is possible that the early ones from Sylvania were indeed 18AWG.

Here's what I consider some smart and safe advice......if you have a lamp cap rated at 575W and want to run a 750W lamp in it, get the correct parts to support the pins and get new sockets/wires. What you have is very old and likely could use replacement anyway and on top of that, the new sockets we have from Sylvania are a more robust design. The kit has the lamp retaining bail in it which can also be an improvement for you.

S4Jr and MCM PARs are not rated for 750W lamp use, as mentioned above, due to cooling limitations. Please do not do this.

All S4s can support 750W lamps with the correct parts as above. There are no changes required to lenses, reflectors, bushings, etc.

One more note, as Ship pointed out, very early S4 fixtures do not support the newer lamp cap casting without modification. This is probably the best reason not to get new lamp caps and instead rework what you have.

All make sense?

David
 
source 4 question from a total newbie...

hi all..first post here...SO...

We've started to use Source 4s and noted a difference between the 2 we have:

One has 4 holes and one has only 2 holes (although there is a phillips screw in place that if removed would open up another hole, although on the wrong side).

We have 2 types of spare bulbs...750 watts with 3 pins and 575 watts with 2 pins.

SO...I'm assuming that the 2 hole Source 4 can only accept 2 pin 575w HPL bulbs and the other 3 hole Source 4 can accept 2 or 3 pin fixtures so either 575w or 3 pin 750w HPL bulbs.

Just needing to confirm that the 3 pin Source 4 is the one rated to 750w and the older?? 2 pin Source 4 is therefore rated to only 575w???

I had thought all Source 4s could handle 750w bulbs??

Also am now thinking the 3 pin 750w HPL bulbs are configured with the idea that they will only fit in fixtures that have 3 (or 4 holes)..a sort of safety measure??


TIA to all who respond

Allan
 
Re: source 4 question from a total newbie...

Correct,
Older fixtures will not take the 750 watt lamp.
IIRC, the wire was not large enough to carry the increased demand of that lamp.

The screw you mentioned is removable to allow the insertion of a 77v 550 watt dimmer doubling lamp.

You should be able to upgrade that fixture to take a 750w if necessary. I believe it is a new lamp socket assembly, as well as the section of base that has the holes in it for the pins.
 
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Re: source 4 question from a total newbie...

Joshua...thanks...thought so. We now have another 19 degree Source 4 coming that should be rated to 750w...at least now I'll know what to look for.

allan
 
Re: source 4 question from a total newbie...

One has 4 holes and one has only 2 holes (although there is a phillips screw in place that if removed would open up another hole, although on the wrong side).

We have 2 types of spare bulbs...750 watts with 3 pins and 575 watts with 2 pins.

SO...I'm assuming that the 2 hole Source 4 can only accept 2 pin 575w HPL bulbs and the other 3 hole Source 4 can accept 2 or 3 pin fixtures so either 575w or 3 pin 750w HPL bulbs.

Just needing to confirm that the 3 pin Source 4 is the one rated to 750w and the older?? 2 pin Source 4 is therefore rated to only 575w???

EXACTLY. 2 holes in the base cap means 575W max. 4 holes means 750W max (as the third lamp pin can fit and allow it to be inserted- designed that way as a safety measure as you guessed!)
 
Re: source 4 question from a total newbie...

(Several posts above have been moved here from another location. Pay attention to the Post Titles to see the distinctions.)
hi all..first post here...SO...
Since it's your first time, I'll be gentle. :twisted:

We have 2 types of spare bulbs...750 watts with 3 pins and 575 watts with 2 pins.

SO...I'm assuming that the 2 hole Source 4 can only accept 2 pin 575w HPL bulbs and the other 3 hole Source 4 can accept 2 or 3 pin fixtures so either 575w or 3 pin 750w HPL bulbs.

I had thought all Source 4s could handle 750w bulbs??

Also am now thinking the 3 pin 750w HPL bulbs are configured with the idea that they will only fit in fixtures that have 3 (or 4 holes)...
Techies call them bulbs; technicians call them lamps. ;)
Furthermore, The lamp cap (burn base assembly) includes the socket; the base is part of the lamp.

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From its introduction in 1992 until 1998 the Source Four could only take a maximum 575W lamp. After 1998 the socket mounting plate ("light baffle") was altered (extra hole for the 750's locator pin) and plastic lamp cap "handles" were added with "750" decals. (For full-size/"Senior" ERS fixtures; the S4jr. is still limited to 575W.) Approx. at the same time, the wire "lamp retaining bail" was added to all ERS lamp caps. See also the thread http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/15347-source-four-revisions.html .
 
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Re: source 4 question from a total newbie...

They are not called bulbs or lamps......... They are supposed to be called globes.

In a nut shell of this entire thread... If your full sized source 4 does not have the pin for the 750w lamp, buy a retrofit kit. Source 4 jr's can only take 575w lamps.

i have never heard that... ever, if someone asked me to get them a globe i would come back with a model of the earth
 
They are not called bulbs or lamps......... They are supposed to be called globes.

In a nut shell of this entire thread... If your full sized source 4 does not have the pin for the 750w lamp, buy a retrofit kit. Source 4 jr's can only take 575w lamps.

I have only ever heard them called globes overseas. In the US it's always lamps (or the less professional "bulbs"), and the main part is called a fixture (or the less professional "light").
 
Re: source 4 question from a total newbie...

They are not called bulbs or lamps......... They are supposed to be called globes. ...
"Supposed to be"?! According to whom? The box the thing comes in says:

"Halogen Display/Optic Lamp" - Osram
"Quarztline™ Halogen Lamp" - GE Lighting
"Stage Theatre Television Studio Lamp" - Sylvania
"Stage/Studio Lamp" - GE
"Halogen Lamp" - Ushio
"Stage and Studio Lamp" - Philips
"AV/Photo Lamp" - Eiko
"Tungsten Halogen Lamp" - Westinghouse


Lamp / bulb / globe / bottle / bubble --all used synonymously in our industry. Film/TV people may be more apt to call them globes, even though tungsten-halogen lamps haven't been globular in forever; in fact, never were. Totally tubular, dude.:rolleyes:

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... and the main part is called a fixture (or the less professional "light").
Fixture / instrument / unit / light / lamp / head / lantern / luminaire (my personal favorite).
Eskimos have fifteen words for snow.
.
 
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Re: source 4 575 vs 750

I'd compare putting an HPL750 in a JR Zoom to putting a Hemi in a Gremlin. Sure, it will work for a little while, but eventually the JR Zoom, like the Gremlin, will just fall apart because it wasn't designed for that. They will both burn up. Leave the screw in if its a jr, and don't pull the pin from a 750. JR's are good for smallish needs, and with a 375w lamp can really do wonders for small event lighting, but for anything with distance, or quality needs, use a normal Source 4 ERS.
 
The terminology discussion reminds me of having to make signs for the facility, then needing to go back and make sure the "uninitiated" new what I was talking about...
 
Re: source 4 575 vs 750

I'd compare putting an HPL750 in a JR Zoom to putting a Hemi in a Gremlin. Sure, it will work for a little while, but eventually the JR Zoom, like the Gremlin, will just fall apart because it wasn't designed for that. They will both burn up. Leave the screw in if its a jr, and don't pull the pin from a 750. JR's are good for smallish needs, and with a 375w lamp can really do wonders for small event lighting, but for anything with distance, or quality needs, use a normal Source 4 ERS.

Poor analogy as the Gremlin would fall apart of it's very own, hemi or not. So adding a hemi may or may not have been the reason for the failure rate. I had a '75 yellow Gremlin. My buddies called it the lead sled. Oh the stories and the places I got stuck....
 

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