The above Ad will no longer appear after you Sign Up for Free!

Conventional Fixtures A New Source Four Color Frame? Why?

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by derekleffew, Oct 20, 2008.

  1. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    4,444
    Likes Received:
    2,843
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    Complete story here: New Source Four Color Frame.
    [​IMG]

    Has anyone ever lost significant sleep over the cost or weight of the S4 color frame? Why can't these companies stop inventing things I'm pretty sure I don't need, and start inventing things I don't even know I need?
     
  2. zac850

    zac850 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,299
    Likes Received:
    25
    Location:
    New York
    Would I buy it? Yes.
    Why? To save 60ยข per frame.
    Would I care? No.
     
  3. gafftapegreenia

    gafftapegreenia CBMod CB Mods

    Messages:
    4,365
    Likes Received:
    501
    Occupation:
    Prop-tart
    Location:
    Chicago
    I was totally losing sleep at night over the weight of a S4 color frame, this has solve my problem!
     
  4. Footer

    Footer Senior Team Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    9,442
    Likes Received:
    1,846
    Location:
    Saratoga Springs, NY
    Because... they can? City Theatrical will make anything as long as it involves cold rolled steel. Also if changing your color frames lets you come in under weight you need to re-look at things.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2008
  5. SAWYeR

    SAWYeR Active Member

    Messages:
    111
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Chicago, Illinois
    I think the point the site made about rental houses is the strongest. I can't even begin to imagine how many frames for S4s rental houses go through. Sure they buy a TON of them, but think how many never come back cus the renter "misplaced" the frame :rolleyes: It actually makes sense...to me at least.
     
  6. mbandgeek

    mbandgeek Active Member

    Messages:
    480
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    North Carolina
    I would be more imnpressed if it made the entire weight of the fixture 33% less, but that would have to defy the law of physics.
     
  7. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    4,444
    Likes Received:
    2,843
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    According to the blurb, it's made from .030" aluminum and similar to an S4PAR frame without a hemmed edge. I haven't a micrometer handy, anyone know the thickness of a "real" colorframe?

    The more an item costs, the more the rental company can charge for a non-returned item.

    So in addition to specifying standard, high-output lamps, I now must also specify genuine, steel ETC color frames?
     
  8. SteveB

    SteveB Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,026
    Likes Received:
    770
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    When I purchased 48 new S4 Pars last year, I stopped using PAR64's thus needed additional c-frames. I knew I wanted metal for the S4's, as I run them at 750 and the paper frames burn in the inside circular edge.

    ProAdv gave me a good deal on frames, but a metal, black painted frame currently lists at between $5.40 and $5.65 EACH (model dependent).

    I'm not a shop, but still - when you are buying 150 of these suckers, $5.50 vs. $2 for a paper safety frame adds up and hurts.

    If the new City Theatrical frame saves $.60, I just saved $100 or so, which makes it worth it.

    Then imagine a shop with a thousand, or 10,000.

    Steve B.
     
  9. MNicolai

    MNicolai Well-Known Member Fight Leukemia

    Messages:
    3,071
    Likes Received:
    1,040
    Occupation:
    Consultant
    Location:
    Sarasota, FL
    The new frames would also have less momentum when someone inevitably drops one from the catwalk and proceeds to slice open the nice upholstery of the seats below. More of a moot point in that sense.
     
  10. soundman

    soundman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,092
    Likes Received:
    121
    Location:
    Nashville TN
    Or the higher profit they will make because now they can get them cheaper. Who counts gel frames anyway, next you will be telling me they bill for safeties.
     
  11. lieperjp

    lieperjp Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,159
    Likes Received:
    43
    Occupation:
    Teacher
    Location:
    Central Wisconsin
    Or they can continue to charge the same price for a cheaper item to replace...
     
  12. zac850

    zac850 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,299
    Likes Received:
    25
    Location:
    New York
    Ever see how PRG itemizes units? Its broken down almost to the bolt!
     
  13. soundman

    soundman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,092
    Likes Received:
    121
    Location:
    Nashville TN

    Yes in fact I have. I know first hand what they count and what gets skipped over. I small show that comes back during a slow time will get counted in with a lot more care than a big tour that comes back while the shop is busy.
     
  14. Kelite

    Kelite Apollo Staff Premium Member

    Messages:
    2,070
    Likes Received:
    250
    Location:
    Fort Wayne IN, USA
    Well as a matter of fact, yes.

    "Real" color frames are only .018 inches thick and made of steel. This is just a tad over HALF the thickness of this new aluminum color frame. The weight becomes a trade-off when you switch from steel to aluminum, then double the thickness of the latter.

    Of note- Apollo ThinLine gel frames are .010 AND made of aluminum. This is an incredible savings in weight. (Though not in the negative numbers as some would like to see (including me)...)
    Cost? The MSRP of 6.25 inch frames are $20.00 for a 10-pack, and 7.5 inch frames are $25.00 for a 10-pack. Thumbing through my copy of 'Elementary Math For Dummies', this equals a paltry $2.00 for each 6.25 and $2.50 for each of the 7.5 inchers.

    Operators are standing by.....
     
  15. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

    Messages:
    12,614
    Likes Received:
    2,627
    Occupation:
    Theater Manager & T.D.
    Location:
    Seattle, Washington
    Great! :rolleyes: So Apollo has a Super Frame too. Sorry to the folks at Apollo and City but I just don't see the need for these. I suppose if you had a MONSTROUSLY HUGE rig touring or a rental shop that ships LOTS of gel frames around you might save enough in fuel expenses to make it worth while. But for the vast majority of us I don't see why we need them. They still work the same way and can be a pain in the butt to feed gel into at times.

    Now the Selecon "Grippa" on the other hand is a true super frame. It's got two sides that are hinged to fully open and snap together to tightly grip the gel. Of course it's plastic so I doubt it's safe to use in a non-Selecon instrument. Now you guys go figure out how to build a frame for a S4 out of metal that works like a "Grippa" and you've got a super frame we will all be interested in.
     
  16. Kelite

    Kelite Apollo Staff Premium Member

    Messages:
    2,070
    Likes Received:
    250
    Location:
    Fort Wayne IN, USA

    Well, we introduced the Thinline Gelframe in 2002, but had not pushed them with dedicated real estate within the catalog in recent years. I'm not going to attempt to convince anyone they absolutely NEED this product but they are lightweight, and they are very inexpensive.

    If you need them, just let us know-
     
  17. soundman

    soundman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,092
    Likes Received:
    121
    Location:
    Nashville TN
    I guess I don't see why others are fussing over a new gel frame. You have the right aproach.

    I cant imagine a theater placing an order to replace the old stock and simply throwing the old ones out. If you find that you are running low on frames now you have some options when you buy more. If no one buys them they will end up in the discontinued section and no harm will be done.
     
  18. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

    Messages:
    4,077
    Likes Received:
    682
    Occupation:
    Controls Technician - TAIT Towers
    Location:
    Lititz, PA
    Here's a question, is the weight and price savings on Aluminum frames enough to counter the fact that they must be significantly easier to bend out of shape? I have so many techs who come in and insist on bending my steel frames to get the color in, I can only imagine that using a more malleable metal just makes this problem exaggerated.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice