The above Ad will no longer appear after you Sign Up for Free!

ACL Wiring Gauge

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by cambo1000, Mar 23, 2012.

  1. cambo1000

    cambo1000 Member

    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    Wiring up (4) 28v 250w Par36-sized ACL bulbs, but just needed to double-check - is 18AWG sufficient? (Using some pre-wired pin-spot cans)

    1000watts @ 112v is only about 9amps, but didn't know if I'm missing something...

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. JD

    JD Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,129
    Likes Received:
    1,439
    Location:
    North Wales PA
    On the fixture whips (between the can and the plug) should be #14 high temp wire in a fiberglass sheath. Limit, about one or two meters. (3 to 6 feet) Anything between the dimmers and the cans should be 12/3 SO. Remember, it is the size of the breaker that determines the size of the wire. (Usually 20 amps / 2400 watts.)

    On stage, your smallest should be 12/3 SO.
     
  3. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

    Messages:
    6,360
    Likes Received:
    628
    Location:
    Illinois
    18ga is not sufficient, nor I believe is code in specifying use of 18ga. cable for such an application - 16ga required in general for stage. (Though with modern LED fixtures...) Believe 3-7 Amps the normal figure for 18ga. cable listed for such cable.

    Also, a very much caution about fixture cooling on a pinspot fixture in using a higher wattage lamp in it. Seems easy enough but this is not a good idea to an extreme in caution. I have done some experiments and it’s not good. This much less beyond making say the P-1000 Pinspot de-UL listed, you don’t have a safety screen for the lamp as I think required for the #4596 lamp. Do not do this!

    Tried in experiment some DWE lamps with pinspots over time including with safety screen. Cannot belive what a DWE looks like if just a screen is placed in front of it but touches the lamp. Hours of R&D to make pinspots into both ACL #4596 and DWE lamp housing of a pinspot = literally punching the rear of it out and replacing it with a vent, than the safety screen issue solved. That plus the safety issue of this peanut jar like cap in screw thread in some form of way to insure it was safety cabled to the fixture and could not just with lamp explosion pop off in more hot glass and metal onto the below.

    Yes I did it safely and they worked, no a Pinspot short of all reasons cannot be done properly in conversion. Difference between a 650w DWE and a #4596 in us is not equal for heat but should be still be considered the same. I did this for both lamp and it did work but after a lot of R&D and I cannot safely tell anoyone of my methods or in how it could work. Do not do this concept of fitting audience blinders or ACL’s into pinspot fixtures. Not safe and unless you have a few million dollars worth of liabilty to cover your work.... don’t try it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 24, 2012
  4. cambo1000

    cambo1000 Member

    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0

    Good word - Sure, I had some concerns but found some heavier duty pinspot housing that I wanted to try. But...yes, ultimately need real par housings; is it a Par46 that would work with the #4596? For what I'm doing, can't really go to Par64, so that's why I want the smaller lamp.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 24, 2012
  5. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

    Messages:
    6,360
    Likes Received:
    628
    Location:
    Illinois
    Try makers of PAR 36 cans for gear that are rated for such lamps. TMB, suspect Thomas and other brands are rated for the lamp size in fixture type. PAR can not pinspot. "Explosive Fragment" that I note in my notes about such #4596 lamps confirms . Did it in R&D for a screen, done it as with much cooling, and for the project will have been a lot less work had I bought something UL listed and stubby PAR off the shelf that were it not so much "My project" in me fabricating such a fixture. Would have probably been cheaper and just as good to install something UL listed and pre-designed that will have worked just as well for the application. Obvious details but in essense and overall no need to invent the wheel where possible.

    I was not suffient yet in research or development to re-invent the wheel by way of using a P-1000 pinspot fixture in making it work with above safety and heating concerns. Lots of work and worked but will have been cheaper in another already invented way.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2012
  6. bishopthomas

    bishopthomas Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,715
    Likes Received:
    164
    Occupation:
    Owner of Sound/Lighting Company
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Where can this wire be found? Electrical supply stores lookmat me like I'm crazy.
     
  7. JD

    JD Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,129
    Likes Received:
    1,439
    Location:
    North Wales PA
    Yea, you will not find it at your local electrical supply house. Usually theatrical and lighting suppliers have it. Kind of a Teflon insulation that is a pain to strip. Coloring is usually white, white with a black stripe, white with a green stripe. Stuff can pretty much lay against a par bulb and not even discolor. At work now, but if no one beats me to it, I'll look it up when I get home.
     
  8. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    4,677
    Likes Received:
    3,193
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
  9. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

    Messages:
    6,360
    Likes Received:
    628
    Location:
    Illinois
    Yes by the way, you can buy your from American DJ thru TMB and Thomas amongst many suppliers that make a PAR 36 can - stubby version if wanted might be more rare but if ACL in lamp not as important. I normally save money in wiring my own cans - this especially given my standards are better than theirs.

    3c 16ga Fixture wire from TMB PCZ 163 3 Conductor Fixture Wire 200c ProZone 600v, (Thermoplastic outer jacket like Rockbestos)
    3c 16ga Fixture wire from TMB ProFixture 3 conductor VDE Heat Wire (#pc3x1.5sVDE) 16ga/1.5mm 3 conductor
    3c 16ga Fixture wire from LEX Tempflex 16/3 200c heat wire

    First type of cable assembly I use a lot of, the others are more or less slicone coated heat wire inner and outer jacket and a good thumb nail will cut thru to conductor - seriously possible as with similar all silicone Euro heat wire cable. The PCZ is not the famous "Rockbestos" that is discontinued as a product and the best, but not that bad as a recommendation. This if going cable whip as opposed to above SF-2 conductors with a fiberglass whip. Normal is a #0 Fiberglass whip but I would do 1/4" thick fiberglass whip with 16ga SF-2 wiring.


    A note on any of these cables or conductors: Even if fiberglass coated (which is the best way to have it in extra protection,) Inside the fixture I normally add another layer of silicone coated fiberglass sleeving over any exposed wiring within the fixture except the ground. That for my special or custom production work at least - normally for line fixtures a braided fiberglass sleeving over the thermoplastic heat wire Teflon or Silicone is fine, but for my work I do the extra effort which helps. Normal policy though in fiberglass sleeving over just plastic conductors.

    Next is except possibly the ground to always use high temperature ring terminals and 3M brand #69 Fiberglass Electrical tape around the displacement crimped "Stakon tool" crimp berrel of the ring terminal. High temp. ring terminals are an important part of the assembly. Tape beyond helping to insulate the terminal helps prevent the fiberglass from un-braiding. Can also color it in covering up your conductor colors with sleeving.

    Above source and any electrical or theatrical supplier in selling or getting SF-2. Trick would be buying the SF-2 in white and buying high temp spay paint in black in green. Saves some money where wanted in properly marking the wire but not paying for three spools. Side note, I often use 200c wire for conductors and 150c wire for the ground. Concept is that if the 150c ground melts down or corrodes, I should be concerned about the 200c wire by than. For this concept probably not an issue but something to keep in mind.

    Last concept, if tired of inch worming fiberglass sleeving up a buch of wires in a whip, try the "push me / pull me" or wiring tube. If big enough in sleeving you can shove some type of pipe or conduit down the designated length of expanded "Chineese finger torcher" like sleeving, and your inner conductors will fit inside that conduit = you just won the game in easy enough to first sleeve the fiberglass with a tubing, than send the wiring down it's inside. Cut and remove the tubing.

    Otherwise if smaller, the push me/pull me stick. On a past making lamp bars project, I sleeved the 14ga multi-cable with outer jacket stripped with 1/4" fiberglass sleeving so as to protect it within the lamp bar from fixture mounting bolts. Literally cut away the parts of a scrap set of white linnen shelving so as to get to the 14" rod that was the proper lenght and dia. Round one end, push it thru the sleeving and tape the other end to the wiring to pull. Simple as that in pulling even 6' lenghts of wire thru fiberglass sleeving.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2012
  10. bishopthomas

    bishopthomas Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,715
    Likes Received:
    164
    Occupation:
    Owner of Sound/Lighting Company
    Location:
    New Jersey

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice