Design Adding LED Lights to a Theater

As the technical directer for my school theater, I have over the past few years introduced the producers and directors to the joy of LED lights in the form of LED par's, and they are now ready to make a long term investment in them, and have asked me for a solution for the theater. As of now, we have 48 channel dimmer rack spread out to 48 plugs over 4 different bars. The plugs on these bars are old stage pin plugs, and are in no way convertible to the necessary DMX signal. How should I go about adding DMX LED lights to the theater? Through several ceiling mounted DMX bars? Where might I find these? Or is there a better solution?

Cheers
 
relay module or two (or 4) so that each bar has power to one circuit (or two depending upon fixture quantity). power to other fixtures is through power jumpers from previous fixtures. If you can't easily get a DMX cable up to each pipe, either require at least one of the fixtures per pipe to have wireless DMX and then jump to the rest or specify a wireless receiver for each pipe and jump to each fixture on the pipe from there. easy peasy (kind of).
 
You're a bit mixed up on power vs signal.

The stage pin plugs have nothing to do with the DMX signal, and shouldn't have anything to do with powering the LED pars UNLESS you swap the corresponding modules with relay modules (as mentioned above). The DMX will be run separately. The dimmers don't really need to have anything to do with the LED pars since you can/should just run constant power from a separate source.

Maybe we should start from the beginning. What is your goal, and what is your current plan on getting there? Also very important: what console are you using, and are you confident that it will continue to serve your needs? If not, do you have a game plan for that?

What do you mean by "DMX bars"? Sorry for all the questions. It just sounds like you're in a little over your head.


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You're a bit mixed up on power vs signal.

The stage pin plugs have nothing to do with the DMX signal, and shouldn't have anything to do with powering the LED pars UNLESS you swap the corresponding modules with relay modules (as mentioned above). The DMX will be run separately. The dimmers don't really need to have anything to do with the LED pars since you can/should just run constant power from a separate source.

Maybe we should start from the beginning. What is your goal, and what is your current plan on getting there? Also very important: what console are you using, and are you confident that it will continue to serve your needs? If not, do you have a game plan for that?

What do you mean by "DMX bars"? Sorry for all the questions. It just sounds like you're in a little over your head.


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My apologies for my lack of clarity les, I have no intention of using the stage pin plugs for anything related to the LED lights, I merely mentioned them to show that I presently have no supporting infrastructure for DMX controlled lights. As of right now we have rented LED lights for a few years, and I usually just mount them on the pipes we have, daisy chain DMX and run power, and patch them into, and control them from our ETC Express 24/48 (Which is more then enough for the basic static LED lighting). By DMX bars, I meant a system that could be mounted to the ceiling, essentially a bar with power outputs and DMX inputs, that would alllow for easy installation and movement of DMX controlled lighting.
 
Thanks for the clarification! It sounds like you could use a system similar to what Pete Engel suggests - a 4-circuit relay pack on each lighting batten, with DMX daisy-chained from the relay pack to the first LED unit and so-forth. You should have DMX coming out of your dimmer rack, so pulling a line from that location shouldn't be a problem. Alternately, you could run a dedicated DMX line from your console's universe 2 port (if applicable).

As for running power, it can be as simple as an extension from a wall outlet or a few select dimmer outputs driven by relay modules (there's a contradictory statement for ya).


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I like the idea of adding a wifi DMX box to the existing pipe and switching out 2 modules per pipe for solid power feed and just daisy chain them. Also props on running 4 pipes of LEDs off a 24/48 I bet that takes some creativity.
 
Thanks for the clarification! It sounds like you could use a system similar to what Pete Engel suggests - a 4-circuit relay pack on each lighting batten, with DMX daisy-chained. You should have DMX coming out of your dimmer rack, so pulling a line from that location shouldn't be a problem. Alternately, you could run a dedicated DMX line from your console's universe 2 port (if applicable).

As for running power, it can be as simple as an extension from a wall outlet or a few select dimmer outputs driven by relay modules (there's a contradictory statement for ya).


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Sorry Les, could you clarify some terms for me? 4-Circuit relay pack, lighting batten, dimmer output driven by relay module
 
I like the idea of adding a wifi DMX box to the existing pipe and switching out 2 modules per pipe for solid power feed and just daisy chain them. Also props on running 4 pipes of LEDs off a 24/48 I bet that takes some creativity.
Cheers Amiers, I'd rather stay away from wireless if at all possible. In my experience it has been not as reliable nor as cost efficient as wired. Also, it does! I've learned a lot on this board, including some creative patching techniques to allow for efficient submaster, group, and cue creation, all while trying to keep physical sliders available for RGB values and intensity for individual groups of LED lights!
 
So is daisy chaining considered the prefered method in the professional world? Keep in mind I'm a self taught high school student :p
 
Cheers Amiers, I'd rather stay away from wireless if at all possible. In my experience it has been not as reliable nor as cost efficient as wired. Also, it does! I've learned a lot on this board, including some creative patching techniques to allow for efficient submaster, group, and cue creation, all while trying to keep physical sliders available for RGB values and intensity for individual groups of LED lights!

I was against wireless at first too. I stressed at every turn about not wanting to use it. In the long run I tested a few different ones and only one failed to me my demands. wifi DMX has come a long way I am currently using Blizzards wifi box and it worked everytime without any issues.
 
I was against wireless at first too. I stressed at every turn about not wanting to use it. In the long run I tested a few different ones and only one failed to me my demands. wifi DMX has come a long way I am currently using Blizzards wifi box and it worked everytime without any issues.
Hmm, maybe something to consider then. Does it just run on its own isolated network?
 
So is daisy chaining considered the prefered method in the professional world? Keep in mind I'm a self taught high school student :p

For LED power and DMX yes. I wouldn't recommend daisy chaining a bunch of 120v fixtures.

Yep own Reciever and Transmitter on a 2.4ghz band.
 
Sorry Les, could you clarify some terms for me? 4-Circuit relay pack, lighting batten, dimmer output driven by relay module

A relay pack is a portable dimmer pack you can mount to the batten to plug the LEDs into. Instead of dimming, they provide are lay instead. A batten is what your lights are hung on, your "bars". Relay modules would be in your dimmer rack. You could use your current stage pin outlets and dimmers for the LEDs IF you swapped modules in the rack so you had constant power relay modules.


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Sorry Les, could you clarify some terms for me? 4-Circuit relay pack, lighting batten, dimmer output driven by relay module

A 4-circuit relay DMX relay pack is one way you could allow your console to power LED lighting. You connect and address it as you would an LED fixture, except that its DMX channels control which fixtures receive power. It also has a DMX output for connecting (daisy-chaining) subsequent fixtures or DMX devices. However for the sake of simplicity, it might just be better to run constant power to the LED lights - you don't necessarily have to control their power other than to shut them down at the end of the night (unless the lights can hibernate).

Daisy-chaining is an industry standard way of connecting multiple DMX devices, as opposed to running a separate line to each fixture which typically isn't preferred, practical, or even possible in most cases.

A batten is the pipe that the lighting fixtures, curtains, and/or scenery are suspended from. Lighting battens are also sometimes referred to as "electrics".

I can't tell if the wiki links are working (I'm on my phone). But if so, the links will have a yellow underscore. Click them for info :).


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... You should have DMX coming out of your dimmer rack, so pulling a line from that location shouldn't be a problem. ...
Very few, if any, installed dimmer racks have a DMX512 output/pass-thru.

The preferred practice is to run a cable from the Express' DMX Out2 to an opto-splitter located on the grid, then run four DMX lines, one to each batten, following the same path as the borderlight cable already feeding the connector strip s. Or wireless DMX as suggested above. But be aware quality systems are expensive, when compared to cable costs.
 
I've got 2 Production Advantage "Show Baby's" wireless DMX (receiver/transmitter) and a buddy has 8 of them. They have worked flawlessly for us in our single unverse lighting systems and outside giging respectivaly. There is a next series up which talks on specfied frequencies for more unviverse. What other Wireless DMX devices have you folks used that you've been unhappy with?
 
They are, yes.

And W-DMX devices are made by Wireless Solution.
CRMX devices are made by LumenRadio.
RC4Magic are made by RC4 Wireless.

Therse are all great options. I strongly recommend looking closely at the pros and cons of each. There is no device that is perfect for every situation, despite what vendors may tell you.

Jim
RC4 Wireless
 
Going back to the discussion of how to power all this and stage pin plugs... What Brand/model of dimmer rack do you have? Are you familiar with the idea of swapping modules? I recently added some LED's to my theater. I swapped the modules for constant power modules. Then took some old stage pin two-fers and converted them so they were stage pin male and eddison female on the other. I've added a remotely controlled power strip (made by Stanley) so I can kill the power strips from the deck. Now my LED's safely run off of non-dimmed power out of a stage pin plug and I can easily turn them off for the night.
 

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