Loudspeakers Advice for a large high school sound upgrade!

[jddgg22]

Hey everyone,
So I have recently come into a fortunate position where my high school administration has actually decided to help redo the entire sound system within my current high school theater. The numbers have fluctuated anyone from a twenty five thousand dollar overhaul to an eighty thousand dollar overhaul, but no matter to dollar cost I really don't feel qualified to determine what the high school truly needs!

I'm a bit more tech savvy than a lot of high school tech teachers, but that is a pretty big upgrade.

The overall venue seats 400, is seventy feet deep and sixty feet wide. The audience seating has a slight rake for the bottom ten rows and then a much steeper rake for the remainder of the seats for a total height difference of 17 feet from front to back.

Currently we have two pairs of JBL high / mid speakers (the specific model numbers I would need to attain on Thursday) in the catwalks on stage left and right facing down at about the 10th row, and two centralized subwoofers in the center of the catwalks positioned at the same place as the highs and mids.

My first impulse is to add a pairing of high and mid speakers to the center cluster, add a small array into the proscenium arch as front fills that are aimed straight forward towards the back of the house as opposed to down toward is, and then potentially a set of side fills about half way into the house to reinforce the sound further so that we don't have to amplify it as much to get to the back of the venue.

The actual products necessary for this are somewhat over my head is the problem... I've done some research into the SRX728S, SRX738, and SRX725 for my side arrays as well as using the SRX738, and SRX725 to enhance my center cluster and the SRX738 for my side fills but I'm not sure that is the best idea....

Some of my students had mentioned looking into a Vertec array for the side arrays, but I still don't know if it's necessary or if there is a better way to approach this!

At the very least, if anyone knows any reputable sound installers in Colorado that they could suggest it would be appreciated! I haven't had very good luck in the past with many of the sound companies / individuals I have worked with, so I'm open for suggestions!

Thanks for your help in advance!

 

[techieman33]

It's sounded like a broken record around here lately with all of the threads similar to this popping up. But I'll say it again, hire a consultant. There is no way anyone can give advice like this over the internet. Well I'll take that back, some people will tell you to buy this that and the other thing, but they either want to sell you something, or don't know what they're talking about. There are just way to many details involved in an upgrade like this to be left to chance by not spending a few of those upgrade dollars on bringing someone in to evaluate the space and help you figure out what you really need to get the most bang for your buck.

 

[chausman]

http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/sound-music-intercom/32114-upgrade-recommendations.html
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/sound-music-intercom/31741-another-church-sound-thread.html
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/sound-music-intercom/31641-good-pa-brands-models-church.html
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...system-design-bid-installation-questions.html

Relevant (Recent) threads that will be a good place to start. And if you look at other non-sound-specific threads on upgrades/new spaces/etc. you'll see hiring a theater consultant, who is seperate from the person selling the equipment to you, is a vital cost. And as Museav and others will tell you, that single expense can save you a lot of money down the road, because they will want to sell you want you need, not want they need to sell.
.

 

[museav]

I don't know your background or experience but even for the most experienced systems designers it all starts and ends with the goals and expectations, defining the goals and expectations upfront and then making sure that whatever is defined is achieved in the end. In my experience the goals and expectations are typically related to functionality and performance rather than the system concept or hardware used, the actual system and hardware is generally more a means to an end with an acceptable result determined more by what the system does than what it is. Thus it often makes sense to start with defining the functional and performance goals before moving into addressing the related solutions.

Upgrading existing systems typically infers that there are problems and/or limitations currently being experienced and some reason why an upgrade is being considered. It seems likely that there are specific reasons for considering any changes so it probably also makes sense to address why an upgrade is being considered and what is hoped to be achieved.

Upgrades of existing systems in existing spaces often also entail considering the existing physical space and infrastructure. Potential speaker locations, allowable structural loads, existing power provisions, existing conduit and boxes, accessibility and so on may all affect the solutions developed and/or the work entailed.

The performance of a speaker system is dependent on the speakers used but it is also dependent on proper application of the speaker hardware, proper system processing, proper installation, proper system setup and tuning, the interaction with the room and so on. Using good gear does not by itself assure a good result, entire package of equipment, proper application of the equipment and proper installation and tuning factor into the net results. Don't get too focused on the products and lose sight of the big picture.

On a slightly different aspect, along with the goals it often makes sense to address the overall process early on. Who is going to define the project requirements, coordinate the work, approve the work and so on? Is there an associated schedule? Is this a 'standalone' project or part of a more more comprehensive renovation? Does a budget have to be identified and funding approved before proceeding with the system procurement? Does the system procurement have to be competitively bid? Do you or others there have experience with the related issues, documentation and processes such that you are comfortable defining what is to be provided and assessing that what is provided is what was contracted? Given the situation does a design-build approach make the most sense, might design-bid-build be more appropriate or would some other approach be permitted and more effective?

The general point is that in most system installation projects there is much to consider before trying to address the actual solutions and related hardware. Put simply, to achieve the desired results under the applicable conditions you need to first identify the applicable conditions and define the acceptable or desired outcome. The better you can define those goals and conditions, the better the basis for developing potential solutions and also for assessing the final results.

As an aside, the JBL SRX series has been discontinued and replaced by the STX series, although both are really intended more for portable applications than for installed systems.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

While I don't offer acoustic and a/v consulting services, I agree with both responses. So often when users and administrators say "they can't hear" and immediately start talking about sound systems, the real problem is not the sound system but room acoustics resulting in lack of intelligibility or mechanical and other noise. It points up one of the best reasons for a consultant that only offers design services, because they will provide a solution to fix the problem, and whether that is modifying or adding to walls, mechanical systems, or sound systems, their financial interest is the same. Call someone who sells sound systems, a common reaction to "I can't hear", and the solution is likely to be a sound system solution, because that is more work for that person.

There are a couple of companies in Boulder I have worked with and have high regard for that I'd recommend you contact. PM or email me if you like.

 

[RyanBolitho]

My thread is listed above and I took the advice and am now working with a stellar guy out of the Boulder area... better to do it right once than guessing and having to do it all over again.

 

[museav]

My thread is listed above and I took the advice and am now working with a stellar guy out of the Boulder area... better to do it right once than guessing and having to do it all over again.

Glad to hear things are working out for you, let us know how it all turns out!