Advice on a good controller

[skinman]

Hey folks,
I would like to enlist your advice on what you think would be a good lighting controller for a mid level band that does a quite a few shows on the road.

We have a smaller light show with 30 pars, a couple of movers, 12 pin spots and a smoke machine all controllable via dmx.

We have been using the Chamsys software but recently had a problem when we showed up at the show and the computer wouldn't connect to the lights and we had to run the lights on the dimmers with no movers. Quite the bummer.

We would like something that we can expand with as well as we are looking to add some movers and replace some of the pars with LED pars in the future and will need pleanty of channels to grow.

I like the Chamsys software for a lot of its features including the FX's, however, there was a bit of a learning curve with this software. We were looking into getting a wing but the thought is to try and get something that doesn't use a computer as its source. We are kind of freaked out about the experience we had with the computer not working at the last gig.

We have looked as some Elation controllers. Ones like the Elation Magic 260 for example. Any thoughts on these?

I have read a lot from this forum so I thought I would stop by here and ask the pros. Thanks a lot in advance for all your guys help.

Take Care,
Ed

 

[Pie4Weebl]

Before you jump of chamsys, two questions:
1. Did you use the laptop for anything else besides lights?
2. Are you using the $75 or $150 dongle, there is a quality difference!

 

[skinman]

Before you jump of chamsys, two questions:
1. Did you use the laptop for anything else besides lights?
2. Are you using the $75 or $150 dongle, there is a quality difference!

We were using a MAC and yes we were using it for other things. I realize that this has a lot to do with it which is another reason why we wanted to try to get a dedicated lighting controller so we wouldn't run into this again. We are using the Entec inexpensive dongle as well. All of which I am sure contributes to our woes

 

[Footer]

Buy a new computer (Dell outlet has good laptops for 500 bucks that will run Chamsys great). Install every update possible to windows. Turn off the wireless access. Install Chamsys. Never use the computer for anything but Chamsys again. Occasionaly hook it up to the internet to download update.

I have been using off the shelf computers to run lighting, sound, and automation software for years and this is the only way to do it. Never had a show yet that did not go up. Added to that, you also need to get at least the "Pro" enntec dongle. If you buy a wing, they have the DMX outputs there to begin with.

Your not going to be happy with anything that is not Chamsys/Hog/GrandMA if you have expereinced them. Most people would rather run the lighting by using themselves as a feeder cable before they use any elation/americanDJ/Chauvet console to do a show. Avoid those things at all costs. If you want a dedicated controller that is not based on an off the shelf PC, look at a used Jands Hog desk.

Once again, there is nothing wrong with a PC console. All modern lighting consoles are based on either Windows or Linux at their core.

 

[Pie4Weebl]

Too add on to what footer said, best buy sells compaq laptops for as low as $350.

 

[gafftaper]

One place I work is reliably using MagicQ on an old 500mhz CPU Windows XP laptop. It doesn't take much horsepower to make MagicQ happy. Any problems you had were not the software they were the laptop or Dongle. Be sure you use an ENTTEC USB Pro or better dongle. Again that's the dongle we use and we've had no problems. We don't even shut the laptop off, we just close the lid and put it to sleep. I swear we only reboot about every 3 months with no problems.

Also check out the ENNTEC DMXIS. I took a look at it at LDI and thought it was pretty cool. I only played with it a few minutes but it seemed more intuitive and easier to use than Champsys. It's definitely designed for bands to use on the cheap. $250 including the dongle is not bad.

If you want to spend some money the next step up is the ETC SmartfadeML ($2250 at Full Compass). I haven't used one more than to demo it, but others around here have and have been very happy with them for similar small club/band tour situations.

(Hey Pie don't you have a SmartfadeML?)

 

[jglodeklights]

I do not recommend using, for reliability needed purposes, the ENTTEC Open DMX dongle for exactly the same reason that ENTTEC doesn't either.

It isn't self buffering. I've found that with certain USB controllers, this can be a mixed bag regarding reliability. Sometimes it will never freeze, then something happens and suddenly if you aren't changing levels on lights for a few minutes the buffering freezes and nothing connects, and it will do this forever more.

The Chamsys dongle and the ENTTEC Pro both act like a regular console in that they self buffer.

Like others said, don't discount Magic Q yet!

 

[derekleffew]

We were using a MAC and yes we were using it for other things. ... We are using the Entec inexpensive dongle as well. ...

I do not recommend using, for reliability needed purposes, the ENTTEC Open DMX dongle for exactly the same reason that ENTTEC doesn't either. ...

The $60 Open DMX USB does not support Mac, but the $151 DMX USB Pro does.

skinman, you're not going to find as much functionality in any stand-alone console as MagicQ PC without spending $7-10,000. Anyone know the price of a Chamsys MQ100, which I assume is the least expensive "real" console?

 

[DuckJordan]

Used its going for about twelve grand low side.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

 

[jglodeklights]

The $60 Open DMX USB does not support Mac, but the $151 DMX USB Pro does.

skinman, you're not going to find as much functionality in any stand-alone console as MagicQ PC without spending $7-10,000. Anyone know the price of a Chamsys MQ100, which I assume is the least expensive "real" console?

No, ENTTEC does not support MAC. However, the drivers they include are also not the ones that need to be installed for either system. Chamsys includes the proper ones in a directory within the download. This allows the OPEN version to work happily on Intel equipped Mac computers, but MagicQ wasn't too happy on the one I saw it installed on. And as an open source majobby, you can make the OPEN work with pretty much anything if you have the programming knowledge..... which isn't me.

 

[derekleffew]

No, ENTTEC does not support MAC. ...

Please see this page.

... Chamsys includes the proper ones in a directory within the download. This allows the OPEN version to work happily on Intel equipped Mac computers, but MagicQ wasn't too happy on the one I saw it installed on. ...

Some time ago, I couldn't get the OPEN to work with MagicQ and my Intel Core 2 Duo. But then when I saw the Enttec page, I stopped trying, and regretted not buying the PRO. Perhaps I should try again? I have the MagicDMX Basic, but haven't gotten around to trying that yet.

 

[jglodeklights]

Please see this page.

Some time ago, I couldn't get the OPEN to work with MagicQ and my Intel Core 2 Duo. But then when I saw the Enttec page, I stopped trying, and regretted not buying the PRO. Perhaps I should try again? I have the MagicDMX Basic, but haven't gotten around to trying that yet.

I meant for the OPEN Mac isn't supported. Yes, the PRO is fully supported by them for Mac and Linux and apple processor computers even.

No harm in trying to get the OPEN to work again, but I'd still rather have to replug the device/reboot Magic Q than worry if the self buffering done by the computer is gonna freak out.

 

[metti]

Anyone know the price of a Chamsys MQ100, which I assume is the least expensive "real" console?

Roughly $16k as of fall 2010 for a MQ100Pro. Haven't checked since then. The MQ100 Expert is something like $14k. Personally, I think it is well worth the extra couple grand to get up to the MQ100Pro though. I have seen the original consoles (now called Expert) going for as little as $10k on the used market. The Pro line is rarely, if ever, available used so I don't know what they would go for.

 

[LXPlot]

On a related note, does anybody know price range for the GrandMA CPU Node?

 

[Pie4Weebl]

On a related note, does anybody know price range for the GrandMA CPU Node?

3-5 grand last time I checked.

 

[jonliles]

Why would you buy the Enttec Pro at 150 when you can buy the Chamsys MagicDMX full for about 100.

Has any one had any luck getting price from PRG? I've emailed them twice through their online tool about ChamSys' products prices.

Anyone have a price for the ChamSys 2 Universe USD DMX interface?

 

[Tex]

Why would you buy the Enttec Pro at 150 when you can buy the Chamsys MagicDMX full for about 100.

1.) I don't always run MagicQ with my Enttec Pro. It will work with lots of different software.
2.) I can use multiple Enttec Pro units to expand the number of DMX universes available.

 

[len]

IMO, there's NOTHING that is 100% reliable given enough time and use. I've seen Hogs, MA, Avo, Maxxyz, all crash. It happens. The best thing you can do is get all your show data AND a clean install copy of the software saved to a floppy drive, etc. I have a 30 meg USB drive that gets backed up all the time. Or use carbonite or something. So no matter what happens to the computer, the show can be installed somewhere else (assuming I can get a new computer) and things go on. With disc storage so cheap these days, there's really no excuse not to.

 

[LXPlot]

1.) I don't always run MagicQ with my Enttec Pro. It will work with lots of different software.
2.) I can use multiple Enttec Pro units to expand the number of DMX universes available.

What others do you use with it? Maybe the OP might benefit from checking a few of them out.

Also, you can get a refurbished laptop of decent specs of Amazon for ~200 dollars, and with 150 for the Chamsys DMX Pro you're still better than the ~600 you would pay for an Elation 260. It's also going to be more reliable. Also, always keep your show and everything on a thumb drive so if the new (in a sense...) laptop dies you can use the one you're currently.

 

[jglodeklights]

Hhmmmm, LightFactory, Lights UP!, Hippo. There are actually MANY softwares of varying uses and intents that can be used with the ENTTEC dongles. While the Pro version is upgraded compared to Open, it carries over the basic framework of the Open, allowing it quite a bit of flexibility in allowing independent programmers to create software for it. I personally have only found Lightfactory (barely), Magic Q and Lights UP! acceptable programs for varying levels of theatrical programming.

As Magic Q requires its own drivers to work with external devices, and those drivers which only Magic Q can utilize in the Chamsys dongle, can be a little limiting. With the ENTTEC Pro you can use the dongle one day with a software designed for theater, next day with a software designed for concerts, and then another with an architectural based controller.