A few more details about the charges against Alec Baldwin are out today.
Alec Baldwin involved in accidental shooting death on set of "Rust"
- Thread startergafftaper
- Start date
Baldwin and Hannah Gutierrez-Reed have been criminally charged.
www.theguardian.com
Charges filed against Alec Baldwin for ‘extremely reckless acts’ on Rust set
The actor maintains his innocence and plans to fight the charge of involuntary slaughter of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins
It's interesting to note that the police said Baldwin's role as a producer was part of the reason he was charged. Hopefully that means they see this as a top down failure to follow safety protocols and they are not going down the path of actors need to be responsible for gun safety.Baldwin and Hannah Gutierrez-Reed have been criminally charged.
Charges filed against Alec Baldwin for ‘extremely reckless acts’ on Rust set
The actor maintains his innocence and plans to fight the charge of involuntary slaughter of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins
kiwitechgirl
Well-Known Member
Looking at this from an Antipodean perspective, it boggles me. I had an experience a few months ago where we were doing Carmen on an island in the middle of Sydney Harbour (yeah, another Opera Australia outdoor extravaganza!). We had an issue with a harp which meant we had to get a replacement out there (put harp on truck, put truck on barge, go the 500m to the island on the barge, drive truck off barge, unload and swap harps over!) and the same day, Props was taking over a crate of rifles as well. Replica weapons, completely unable to fire anything except blanks. Couldn’t fire live rounds if we wanted them to.
As it happened, it was exceptionally windy that day, so much so that the usual barge wasn’t able to operate and we had to use a smaller one, and even then we were severely delayed waiting for the wind to drop. Because we were delayed, we ended up putting the rifle case in our truck with the harp (couldn’t get both our truck and the props van on the barge, and no time to do a second barge trip) and despite the fact that the case was padlocked and in a locked truck, with the on-site props master waiting on the island to receive them, we had to take the licensed props staff member who was delivering them on the truck on the barge with us, because she physically could not legally let them out of her custody except to hand them over to another licensed staff member (the on-site props master), even for the ten minutes it would take to get across the harbour, and I am pretty sure the police had been notified about the movement of the weapons. The hoops you have to jump through to get a theatrical firearms license here are not insignificant. I can’t help thinking that some sort of licensing requirements in this Rust situation may have saved the DOP’s life.
As it happened, it was exceptionally windy that day, so much so that the usual barge wasn’t able to operate and we had to use a smaller one, and even then we were severely delayed waiting for the wind to drop. Because we were delayed, we ended up putting the rifle case in our truck with the harp (couldn’t get both our truck and the props van on the barge, and no time to do a second barge trip) and despite the fact that the case was padlocked and in a locked truck, with the on-site props master waiting on the island to receive them, we had to take the licensed props staff member who was delivering them on the truck on the barge with us, because she physically could not legally let them out of her custody except to hand them over to another licensed staff member (the on-site props master), even for the ten minutes it would take to get across the harbour, and I am pretty sure the police had been notified about the movement of the weapons. The hoops you have to jump through to get a theatrical firearms license here are not insignificant. I can’t help thinking that some sort of licensing requirements in this Rust situation may have saved the DOP’s life.
DuckJordan
Well-Known Member
I wish we had more regulations requiring the use of firearms in the US, especially in the case of theater and entertainment. As I understand its very much up to each jurisdiction with some having absolutely no requirements whatsoever. I remember assisting a high school a few years as a consultant which they wanted to use a shotgun on stage just as a visual prop (no rounds whats over). We did the safest thing possible and removed the shotguns ability to fire by removing the firing pin, and plugging the barrel. It was locked in a safe in the fine arts directors locked office and only 2 people had the key to the safe, myself and the fine arts director. It came out of the safe when it was about to go on deck and right back in after it came off.
Then working on a professional touring theater I watched as 6 rifles fully intact were stored in a wooden box behind a cheep lock and a little clasp that could have easily been broken into with no regard to safety apart from at the end of the night being locked up until the next day.
I feel as a community (IATSE and AEA) we could draft up some rules in regard to firearm use and safety that are a requirement for all contracts, instead of just suggestions.
This is exactly what we are doing with the ESTA TSP weapons safety working group which is creating an ANSI standard with all the players at the table. Equity, SAG. IATSE, studios, producers, armorers.
Several of our members here participating on that working group.
And in the US the ATF is very clear as to what constitutes a firearm, and state and federal law apply regardless of it being used as a prop or not.
Jay Ashworth
Well-Known Member
We look forward to hearing on-going progress reports from this activity.
bobgaggle
Well-Known Member
Since its good to have the definition in discussions like this, ATF defines a firearm as:
1. Any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;
2. The frame or receiver of any such weapon;
3. Any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or
4. Any destructive device. (of course, this has its own definition else where)
@kiwitechgirl 's box of fake guns being unaccompanied for 10 minutes wouldn't raise an eye brow in the USA since they're not even firearms to begin with, maybe. She says there's no way they could chamber a live round if they wanted to, makes me think its not readily converted, but the courts will decide that in the aftermath I suppose. One of my good friends works at ATF and says they often have to go to their legal department to be sure if this toy or that firework is actually not a firearm or destructive device.
Total side note from the Rust situation, but maybe a little relevant when it comes to law enforcement in this great land of ours. He told a story of a guy who had bought and inert grenade from and army/navy store, filled it with tannerite, and fitted a commercial mining blasting cap to the top. So technically it was a live grenade (destructive device), and ATF new about it, but it was a mess of legality before they could actually go and seize it. The guy had a permit for the blasting cap, an FFL license and some other paperwork that was somehow relevant, so there was lots of confusion about whether he actually had found a loophole in the law or whether he was in violation.
1. Any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;
2. The frame or receiver of any such weapon;
3. Any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or
4. Any destructive device. (of course, this has its own definition else where)
@kiwitechgirl 's box of fake guns being unaccompanied for 10 minutes wouldn't raise an eye brow in the USA since they're not even firearms to begin with, maybe. She says there's no way they could chamber a live round if they wanted to, makes me think its not readily converted, but the courts will decide that in the aftermath I suppose. One of my good friends works at ATF and says they often have to go to their legal department to be sure if this toy or that firework is actually not a firearm or destructive device.
Total side note from the Rust situation, but maybe a little relevant when it comes to law enforcement in this great land of ours. He told a story of a guy who had bought and inert grenade from and army/navy store, filled it with tannerite, and fitted a commercial mining blasting cap to the top. So technically it was a live grenade (destructive device), and ATF new about it, but it was a mess of legality before they could actually go and seize it. The guy had a permit for the blasting cap, an FFL license and some other paperwork that was somehow relevant, so there was lots of confusion about whether he actually had found a loophole in the law or whether he was in violation.
I stumbled onto a Youtube video of a guy showing how the 1873 Colt revolver, that Baldwin fired, can go off without pulling the trigger, and he demonstrates it with that type of gun. I know next to nothing about guns, but this seems very credible.
Why Alec Baldwin's gun fired
Why Alec Baldwin's gun fired
FMEng I have to disagree with you somewhat on the exact semantics of the statement that it can go off with out the trigger being pulled. While you are correct that the gun can go off with out the trigger being moved at the instant of discharge the key detail in this case is that in order for the firearm to operate in that manner, the trigger must already be held down while the hammer is pulled back. This is consistent with Baldwins statements of how he was holding the gun and how he let the hammer back down. So I have to argue that the FBI's statement that the gun was not defective and can not go off with out the trigger being pulled is also correct.
And... the show must go on? Filming to resume...
www.theguardian.com
Rust to resume filming with Alec Baldwin and new cinematographer
Original cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was killed when a live round was discharged on set of western in New Mexico
