Alec Baldwin involved in accidental shooting death on set of "Rust"

Baldwin and Hannah Gutierrez-Reed have been criminally charged.

It's interesting to note that the police said Baldwin's role as a producer was part of the reason he was charged. Hopefully that means they see this as a top down failure to follow safety protocols and they are not going down the path of actors need to be responsible for gun safety.
 
Looking at this from an Antipodean perspective, it boggles me. I had an experience a few months ago where we were doing Carmen on an island in the middle of Sydney Harbour (yeah, another Opera Australia outdoor extravaganza!). We had an issue with a harp which meant we had to get a replacement out there (put harp on truck, put truck on barge, go the 500m to the island on the barge, drive truck off barge, unload and swap harps over!) and the same day, Props was taking over a crate of rifles as well. Replica weapons, completely unable to fire anything except blanks. Couldn’t fire live rounds if we wanted them to.

As it happened, it was exceptionally windy that day, so much so that the usual barge wasn’t able to operate and we had to use a smaller one, and even then we were severely delayed waiting for the wind to drop. Because we were delayed, we ended up putting the rifle case in our truck with the harp (couldn’t get both our truck and the props van on the barge, and no time to do a second barge trip) and despite the fact that the case was padlocked and in a locked truck, with the on-site props master waiting on the island to receive them, we had to take the licensed props staff member who was delivering them on the truck on the barge with us, because she physically could not legally let them out of her custody except to hand them over to another licensed staff member (the on-site props master), even for the ten minutes it would take to get across the harbour, and I am pretty sure the police had been notified about the movement of the weapons. The hoops you have to jump through to get a theatrical firearms license here are not insignificant. I can’t help thinking that some sort of licensing requirements in this Rust situation may have saved the DOP’s life.
 
Looking at this from an Antipodean perspective, it boggles me. I had an experience a few months ago where we were doing Carmen on an island in the middle of Sydney Harbour (yeah, another Opera Australia outdoor extravaganza!). We had an issue with a harp which meant we had to get a replacement out there (put harp on truck, put truck on barge, go the 500m to the island on the barge, drive truck off barge, unload and swap harps over!) and the same day, Props was taking over a crate of rifles as well. Replica weapons, completely unable to fire anything except blanks. Couldn’t fire live rounds if we wanted them to.

As it happened, it was exceptionally windy that day, so much so that the usual barge wasn’t able to operate and we had to use a smaller one, and even then we were severely delayed waiting for the wind to drop. Because we were delayed, we ended up putting the rifle case in our truck with the harp (couldn’t get both our truck and the props van on the barge, and no time to do a second barge trip) and despite the fact that the case was padlocked and in a locked truck, with the on-site props master waiting on the island to receive them, we had to take the licensed props staff member who was delivering them on the truck on the barge with us, because she physically could not legally let them out of her custody except to hand them over to another licensed staff member (the on-site props master), even for the ten minutes it would take to get across the harbour, and I am pretty sure the police had been notified about the movement of the weapons. The hoops you have to jump through to get a theatrical firearms license here are not insignificant. I can’t help thinking that some sort of licensing requirements in this Rust situation may have saved the DOP’s life.
I wish we had more regulations requiring the use of firearms in the US, especially in the case of theater and entertainment. As I understand its very much up to each jurisdiction with some having absolutely no requirements whatsoever. I remember assisting a high school a few years as a consultant which they wanted to use a shotgun on stage just as a visual prop (no rounds whats over). We did the safest thing possible and removed the shotguns ability to fire by removing the firing pin, and plugging the barrel. It was locked in a safe in the fine arts directors locked office and only 2 people had the key to the safe, myself and the fine arts director. It came out of the safe when it was about to go on deck and right back in after it came off.
Then working on a professional touring theater I watched as 6 rifles fully intact were stored in a wooden box behind a cheep lock and a little clasp that could have easily been broken into with no regard to safety apart from at the end of the night being locked up until the next day.
I feel as a community (IATSE and AEA) we could draft up some rules in regard to firearm use and safety that are a requirement for all contracts, instead of just suggestions.
 
I wish we had more regulations requiring the use of firearms in the US, especially in the case of theater and entertainment. As I understand its very much up to each jurisdiction with some having absolutely no requirements whatsoever. I remember assisting a high school a few years as a consultant which they wanted to use a shotgun on stage just as a visual prop (no rounds whats over). We did the safest thing possible and removed the shotguns ability to fire by removing the firing pin, and plugging the barrel. It was locked in a safe in the fine arts directors locked office and only 2 people had the key to the safe, myself and the fine arts director. It came out of the safe when it was about to go on deck and right back in after it came off.
Then working on a professional touring theater I watched as 6 rifles fully intact were stored in a wooden box behind a cheep lock and a little clasp that could have easily been broken into with no regard to safety apart from at the end of the night being locked up until the next day.
I feel as a community (IATSE and AEA) we could draft up some rules in regard to firearm use and safety that are a requirement for all contracts, instead of just suggestions.
This is exactly what we are doing with the ESTA TSP weapons safety working group which is creating an ANSI standard with all the players at the table. Equity, SAG. IATSE, studios, producers, armorers.

Several of our members here participating on that working group.

And in the US the ATF is very clear as to what constitutes a firearm, and state and federal law apply regardless of it being used as a prop or not.
 
This is exactly what we are doing with the ESTA TSP weapons safety working group which is creating an ANSI standard with all the players at the table. Equity, SAG. IATSE, studios, producers, armorers.

Several of our members here participating on that working group.

And in the US the ATF is very clear as to what constitutes a firearm, and state and federal law apply regardless of it being used as a prop or not.
We look forward to hearing on-going progress reports from this activity.
 
Since its good to have the definition in discussions like this, ATF defines a firearm as:

1. Any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;
2. The frame or receiver of any such weapon;
3. Any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or
4. Any destructive device.
(of course, this has its own definition else where)

@kiwitechgirl 's box of fake guns being unaccompanied for 10 minutes wouldn't raise an eye brow in the USA since they're not even firearms to begin with, maybe. She says there's no way they could chamber a live round if they wanted to, makes me think its not readily converted, but the courts will decide that in the aftermath I suppose. One of my good friends works at ATF and says they often have to go to their legal department to be sure if this toy or that firework is actually not a firearm or destructive device.


Total side note from the Rust situation, but maybe a little relevant when it comes to law enforcement in this great land of ours. He told a story of a guy who had bought and inert grenade from and army/navy store, filled it with tannerite, and fitted a commercial mining blasting cap to the top. So technically it was a live grenade (destructive device), and ATF new about it, but it was a mess of legality before they could actually go and seize it. The guy had a permit for the blasting cap, an FFL license and some other paperwork that was somehow relevant, so there was lots of confusion about whether he actually had found a loophole in the law or whether he was in violation.
 
I stumbled onto a Youtube video of a guy showing how the 1873 Colt revolver, that Baldwin fired, can go off without pulling the trigger, and he demonstrates it with that type of gun. I know next to nothing about guns, but this seems very credible.
Why Alec Baldwin's gun fired
 
FMEng I have to disagree with you somewhat on the exact semantics of the statement that it can go off with out the trigger being pulled. While you are correct that the gun can go off with out the trigger being moved at the instant of discharge the key detail in this case is that in order for the firearm to operate in that manner, the trigger must already be held down while the hammer is pulled back. This is consistent with Baldwins statements of how he was holding the gun and how he let the hammer back down. So I have to argue that the FBI's statement that the gun was not defective and can not go off with out the trigger being pulled is also correct.
 
There's rumours flying around that Baldwin himself put the live round in the gun in between shoots to do some recreational shooting! Sounds like complete baloney to me, but have any of you stateside members, who are closer to what's going on, heard any such rumours or where they're coming from?
 
There's rumours flying around that Baldwin himself put the live round in the gun in between shoots to do some recreational shooting! Sounds like complete baloney to me, but have any of you stateside members, who are closer to what's going on, heard any such rumours or where they're coming from?
Haven't heard that at all.

But the charges against Baldwin have been dropped as of today.

There was an article a year ago that may shed some light on where the live rounds came from, but seeing as no official determination has been made since then, I would take it with a grain of salt. Sounds like the live rounds identified by police were actually rounds manufactured by a company that only makes dummy rounds, so -- possibly -- someone, at some point in the chain of custody of the ammunition, reloaded the dummy rounds, which may or may not have happened before the rounds came into Reed's possession.

Not sure we'll ever know what really happened, but at least from the evidence that has been found and testimony given, nothing supports that Baldwin was doing recreational shooting. If anything, that sounds like a game-of-telephone misinterpretation of earlier rumors that Reed had been doing recreational shooting.
 
There's rumours flying around that Baldwin himself put the live round in the gun in between shoots to do some recreational shooting! Sounds like complete baloney to me, but have any of you stateside members, who are closer to what's going on, heard any such rumours or where they're coming from?
There were rumors very early on about some sort of training or recreational shooting happening. If I remember correctly, this might have been part of a large group of accusations that came from the union. There were a bunch of things alleged very early that have faded from what seems to be the story. I have not seen anything recently about any recreational shooting.
 
Does sound like it might just be muck raking.
Yeah yesterday charges against Alec Baldwin were dropped. That further suggests that there is at least no evidence that he loaded the gun.
 
Short version... Charges against Baldwin were dropped because of new evidence. No hints about what that is.

The article is here.
 
Short version... Charges against Baldwin were dropped because of new evidence. No hints about what that is.

The article is here.
More likely they were dropped because the district attorney and special prosecutors were replaced, one of whom became an elected rep to the statehouse for the GOP and the Baldwin charges may have been a good way to initially get their name in the papers in that election cycle. This could just be the new team slow-burning it and reviewing everything from top to bottom, reserving the right to refile if a thorough review of the evidence reveals it's worthwhile.

From a different article, some rumor about the new evidence. Though it's pretty vague about the implications of what the supposed evidence is. And the gun also supposedly broke in two places during the FBI's testing, so from the sound of it, the firearm is not able to have any further functional testing performed on it.

The new evidence, the source said, centers on the revolver that discharged a live round while Baldwin was holding it, striking Hutchins and wounding director Joel Souza.
The weapon had at some point been fitted with a new hammer, calling into question previous conclusions from the FBI crime lab that the weapon could not have fired without the trigger being pulled, the source added.
David Houliston, an attorney who represents Seth Kenney, the owner of the prop company that supplied guns and ammunition for the Rust set, said in a phone interview his client didn’t make any modifications to the weapon.
“It came to him from the distributor just days before he sent it to the set … and was completely unadulterated by Kenney and his company,” Houliston said. “It was not altered, touched, modified or tampered with at all.”
Santa Fe County Sheriff Adan Mendoza, whose department headed the investigation into the shooting, declined to comment Thursday.
 

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