Ah CB...satisfying my daily needs for both humor and intellectual discussion.
Altering a playwright's intentions
- Thread starterSpikesgirl
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Oh but Logos you missed one of my favorite issues surrounding Neanderthal Man. Is it pronounced NE -and -er-thal or Ne-and-er-tal ?
Originally named for the Neander valley, in which many of their remains and former caves were found. Since the the Neander valley is in Germany Many argue that the proper pronunciation is with a silent "H".
As for Stature and brain capacity; The original discovery of Neanderthal remains sparked the "Ape Caveman" stereotype that we now identify in modern culture, stooped shouldered, dull witted, bow legged ape men, clubbing their potential wives over the head and dragging them off to the bushes. As it turns out the Original discovery was of an approximately 60 year old male who was wracked with degenerative arthritis and numerous broken healed bones. Neanderthal Mans brain capacity was also almost a 1/4 more than modern humans, though it's difficult to project exactly how this related to intelligence, base line brain volume is a standard by which we tend to classify a species < especially human ancestors> as intelligent or not.
I have to say that I do agree with your observation that many an artistic / administrative type has walked in on and been amazed by some of the intellectual conversations going on in the production office. People tend to walk into the office that Rusty and Tyler and I share when we are in the middle of political, religious, or esoteric theatrical discussions. Heck not to long ago we were discussing Neanderthals, Native Americans, and human distribution across the globe.
It's that classic adage about judging a book by its cover. People tend to forget that lot of us techs went to "Liberal Arts" colleges, and that we actually had to pass other classes besides "Push a box 101".
Originally named for the Neander valley, in which many of their remains and former caves were found. Since the the Neander valley is in Germany Many argue that the proper pronunciation is with a silent "H".
As for Stature and brain capacity; The original discovery of Neanderthal remains sparked the "Ape Caveman" stereotype that we now identify in modern culture, stooped shouldered, dull witted, bow legged ape men, clubbing their potential wives over the head and dragging them off to the bushes. As it turns out the Original discovery was of an approximately 60 year old male who was wracked with degenerative arthritis and numerous broken healed bones. Neanderthal Mans brain capacity was also almost a 1/4 more than modern humans, though it's difficult to project exactly how this related to intelligence, base line brain volume is a standard by which we tend to classify a species < especially human ancestors> as intelligent or not.
I have to say that I do agree with your observation that many an artistic / administrative type has walked in on and been amazed by some of the intellectual conversations going on in the production office. People tend to walk into the office that Rusty and Tyler and I share when we are in the middle of political, religious, or esoteric theatrical discussions. Heck not to long ago we were discussing Neanderthals, Native Americans, and human distribution across the globe.
It's that classic adage about judging a book by its cover. People tend to forget that lot of us techs went to "Liberal Arts" colleges, and that we actually had to pass other classes besides "Push a box 101".
Logos
Well-Known Member
I have to say that having studied German in my youth I pronounce it "Neandertaler" in my head.
The brain volume of Neanderthal was certainly larger than ours but it is inescapable that the frontal lobes were smaller, if not non existant.
From the barbaric period that a pre frontal lobotomy was a standard treatment for certain mental ilness we are aware that that tends to remove certain intellectual choice making abilities from us. While we do not know how a race with natural lack of frontal lobes will respond it seems that they may be more instinctive.
I was not aware of the issue of the older arthritic male discovery. Thanks for the heads up I will research further.
The issue of brain volume is an interesting one. Based on brain volume are Dolphins and Whales more intelligent tha we are or do they have different intelligence?
How about elephants?
The brain volume of Neanderthal was certainly larger than ours but it is inescapable that the frontal lobes were smaller, if not non existant.
From the barbaric period that a pre frontal lobotomy was a standard treatment for certain mental ilness we are aware that that tends to remove certain intellectual choice making abilities from us. While we do not know how a race with natural lack of frontal lobes will respond it seems that they may be more instinctive.
I was not aware of the issue of the older arthritic male discovery. Thanks for the heads up I will research further.
The issue of brain volume is an interesting one. Based on brain volume are Dolphins and Whales more intelligent tha we are or do they have different intelligence?
How about elephants?
I have to say that I find it odd that Neanderthals had smaller frontal lobes. The Frontal lobes in humans are actually an outgrowth of the Olfactory centers of the brain, we lose an acute sense of smell and gain a modicum of self control. I don't think that the absence of a large frontal area necessarily indicates a "lesser intelligence" It my however indicate, if I may paraphase your comments, that these individuals posessed a strong instinctual drive, and possibly were much more in touch with thier Genetic memmory. I do subscribe to the theory that Neanderthals and early modern humans most likely interbred. I've seen certain treatments of Neanderthal facial re-constructions that would pass for almost modern looking humans < I keep thinking of some of the extras in the movie The Name of the Rose. now there were some Neanderthal features!>
If you go by measurement of Frontal Lobes as proof of intelligence then I believe the Crow / Raven whatever should be by far the most superior intellectual on the planet. In comparison to the rest of thier brain thier frontal lobe / olfactory areas are huge.
If you go by measurement of Frontal Lobes as proof of intelligence then I believe the Crow / Raven whatever should be by far the most superior intellectual on the planet. In comparison to the rest of thier brain thier frontal lobe / olfactory areas are huge.
Logos
Well-Known Member
Do you know (and this is a legend) that there is a strong suggestion that Neanderthaler may have survived into what are loosley described as historic times (ie last 4000 - 6000 years) in Spain.
I am not suggesting that they were of less intelligence after all they certainly discovered fire and were tool users and had a form of visual art. Neanderthal burial sites have contained recognisable sculptures of a female figure. I suspect they were of different intelligent and as you say more in touch with a genetic or race memory.
Didn't I read somewhere that someone is trying to trace Neanderthal genetic strains in modern man. That supports the cross breeding theory.
I am not suggesting that they were of less intelligence after all they certainly discovered fire and were tool users and had a form of visual art. Neanderthal burial sites have contained recognisable sculptures of a female figure. I suspect they were of different intelligent and as you say more in touch with a genetic or race memory.
Didn't I read somewhere that someone is trying to trace Neanderthal genetic strains in modern man. That supports the cross breeding theory.
