The above Ad will no longer appear after you Sign Up for Free!

Alternative fixture whip

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by reggie98, Apr 2, 2009.

  1. reggie98

    reggie98 Member

    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Edison, NJ, USA
    Would this be a possible substitute for fiberglass sleaved fixture whips? Temperature Control Cable: SRG-S
     
  2. Footer

    Footer Senior Team Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    9,462
    Likes Received:
    1,870
    Location:
    Saratoga Springs, NY
    I don't believe so. Part of the reason fixture whips are the way they are is due to the manufacturing process of lamp bases. You do not want to have to make a connection inside the lamp base, its simply too hot.
     
  3. mrb

    mrb Active Member

    Messages:
    377
    Likes Received:
    32
    there are plenty of high temp cables out there, and the silicone insulated cable used to be (and still is) used on par cans, blinders, and all sorts of other insturments. I have seen asian ERS fixtures with it as well. The fiberglas sleeve is better though, the silicone cable is pretty fragile and tears easily.
     
  4. avkid

    avkid Not a New User Fight Leukemia

    Messages:
    5,949
    Likes Received:
    225
    Occupation:
    Stageline Operator/Staging Supervisor
    Location:
    Howell, NJ
    A silicone rubber outer jacket just won't take abuse that fiberglass sleeving will.

    It's probably much more expensive too.
     
  5. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

    Messages:
    6,256
    Likes Received:
    522
    Location:
    Illinois
    Possibly and I do mean that. By the way vinyl coated fiberglass sleeving stands up to more abuse than normal fiberglss sleeving in high abuse situations.

    There is also some in addition to silicone coated cable on the market that in general is a little less resistant to chemicals in the air such as DF-50 fluid or abuse in general such as a thumb nail cutting thru it, other types on the market with vinyl coated sleeving much like SJ cable but 200c heat resistant. This in addition to a sort of like varnish coated fiberglass sleeved solid in filler heat wire on the market which is solid in being bullet proof.

    Problem with the above cable as with others is in strand count of the conductors. Sure I could go with a 250c heat wire for instance, but there is less strands of conductor in having larger strands per wire size that are less flexible. That flexibility is just as much a problem as outer jacket failing in the end. Ain't flexible enough and it's like having a solid wire within your whip in that it will flex for a while but break later in use.

    Sent a copy to work in being interested but for the most part my first thoughts of concern on such a cable would be on stranding of the individual conductors in it being flexible for constant service as opposed to perminant non-moving install.

    Could be great but I have spools of "coluld be great" heat wire cables that were not flexible. TMB has some good heat wire on the market but after that since Rockbestos has been discontinued, not much else out there I know of given a specific very popular brand not mentioned due to the above resistance to chemicals or nicking.


    About the flexibility verses resistance. SF-2 200c heat wire is good and fine, it in a vinyl coated fiberglass sleeve is also a good improvement. After that, I'm still play testing myself but found the TMB products so far good. One silicone coated but a different more resistant silicone, and the other a more like Rockbestos like heat wire within a high-temp and resistant vinyl sleeve to be useful, but also flexible for cord whip.
     
  6. mrb

    mrb Active Member

    Messages:
    377
    Likes Received:
    32

    what is the rockbestos product that was discontinued?
     
  7. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

    Messages:
    6,256
    Likes Received:
    522
    Location:
    Illinois
    Best ever product on the market that suddenly went away.

    Imagine a SJOOW cable but one with conductors and sleeving that's 200c "Heat zone" and resistant to all. Used to come with 2K studio fresnels and lasted and still lasts like 15x years later to the highest abuse.

    Just nothing the same since it went away though TMB does have a sub that's similar in some ways in having that vinyl like outer jacket with inner conductors pulled thru as opposed to outer jacket applied to it. Still out for testing in how well it lasts as a new prouct on the other hand. Could be good, could not be so much.

    General concept is that it's got a hard abrasion and chemical resistant jacket seperate from the inner conductors with filler to keep it round. This as opposed to normal heat cable these days that has in Euro crap style and a cut that makes its way to inner conductors all the way thru, a coating that's applied to the often also softer inner conductors in making it round by way of just applied coating over the inner conductors.

    Often a question of how tightly twisted them inner conductors were done so on your section of cable - can vary this distance between a soft twist or applied coating not right in inner conductors right next to the outer jacket edge, to really thick. On the other hand if the outer jacket is applied as if spray foam over the inner conductors, in addition to this twist and inner conductor distance from the outside of the cable distance problem, often what's applied is softer in not being as chemical or abrasion or cut resistant. And given hot bonding as it were, what cut is in the outer jacket in bonding with or sticking to the inner conductors will go all the way thru.

    Big difference between Euro style cable with applied outer jackets and domestic style with the outer jacket pulled over the inner conductors in it being a seperate thing. Outer jacket in many cases if heat wire is harder and more like PVC than soft silicone as a concept, and whats' inside the tube is not going to be bonded to the outer jacket so a cut such as flexing at the strain relief won't go all the way thru to exposing conductors, though dependant on grade of outer jacket, the outer jacket in being thin can still fail. Thus testing the TMB product, and while Rockbestos was bullet proof, in time it did fail as normal.
     
  8. reggie98

    reggie98 Member

    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Edison, NJ, USA
    So the 7 strand conductors would be a flex issue, until you get into the 12ga. which is 19 strand. Correct? Looking at the spec sheets for SF-2, it seems to have the same issues, only 7 strands in 14 and 16ga.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2009
  9. mrb

    mrb Active Member

    Messages:
    377
    Likes Received:
    32
    ship, do you by chance, have a piece of that rockbestos cable I could get ahold of?
     
  10. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

    Messages:
    6,256
    Likes Received:
    522
    Location:
    Illinois
    Stranding likely and possibly mixture of metals in the strands but that's the basic idea. Flexibility is the key.

    Sample of Rockbestos... have to cut it off a 2Kw Altman Fresnel but possible. Otherwise any cable distributer worth their name will know of it and have it's published spec. Anyone I have talked to at least does in potentially making a run of it for me. Less a question of what it was than the $$ of making it.

    Contact me on PM if you want a sample.
     
  11. headcrab

    headcrab Active Member

    Messages:
    416
    Likes Received:
    25
    Location:
    Northern Colorado
    Use Teflon. It may be as expensive as silicone but its flexible, strong, and can take the heat. I think it's rated up to 200 degrees C.
    You can tell teflon apart from PVC (the standard insulation/jacket) if it's more slippery.
     
  12. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

    Messages:
    6,256
    Likes Received:
    522
    Location:
    Illinois
    Isn't any Teflon multi-conductor I'm aware of and for SF-2 type single conducor wire, it's mostly interchangable be it Teflon verses silicone in having the same melting temperature. Granted I prefer a silicone with fiberglass sleeving over a Teflon without that overall in extra insulation but at 200c, they both do melt down. Both at 200c melt away if they get hot enough in exposing conductor to ground in the end no matter the type if they get hot enough. More a question about the whip to the fixture in having an outer jacket over them, what lasts best in abuse and chemical resistance even over a fiberglass sleeving over individual conductors.

    More a question of what's three conductor cable inside a jacket and on the market at the same temperature that doesn't require a fiberglass sleeving over it that is on the market these days, or what if even 250c, is still flexible enough for a fixture whip.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice