Conventional Fixtures Altman 1KL6-12 Ellipsoidal

[Aki]

I am considering buying a few used instruments. Any thoughts on the quality of the Altman 1KL6-12 ellipsoidal for use in a simple lighting design on a touring show? The primary use would be with gobos, gels, and stage illumination. If this is a good unit, what cost for used/good condition should I expect to pay?
Thanks,
Aki

 

[gafftapegreenia]

The 1KL series of Ellipsoidals might be one of the most hated lined of all time. Run like hell.

 

[derekleffew]

First, do you need an ERS with a field angle of 12° (1KL-brochure.pdf)? Such a narrow fixture would be limited in its placement.
Second, The 1KL-series fixtures have a host of issues: They're heavy, bulky, don't focus well, and have difficulty maintaining an even field. The only advantage over the 360Q-6x16 or 6x22 was the ability to take a 1000W lamp (FEL), but with the modern replacements (GLA-family), that's no longer an issue.

I'd search instead for ETC SourceFour 10° or 14° units.

(Or see this thread: Value of older lights. The OP's Strand Century 2113 8x13s may work for you. WHEN are the CB Classified Ads coming online?)

 

[Les]

Ah yes, the famous 1KL A.K.A.

Doorstop.

Reasonable people on ebay usually ask for between $20 and $45 for these in good used condition. The crazy, unreasonable/uninformed ebayers generally want $100-150. I would not pay more than $20 for one. If you can get one for that though, it's a pretty good deal, regardless of its shortcomings.

Example of unreasonable auction (IMO):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ALTMAN-1KL6-20-...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item35a4af39f1
You can get a good, serviceable 360Q for that. Heck, I just bought a nice, fairly new Altman 360Q 6x22 sans lamp cap (+40 at Production Advantage) for $5 not including $15.50 S&H.

Example of a reasonable ebayer: (Not including the outrageous shipping cost)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Altman-1KL6-12-...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2a034ce7b5

 

[gafftapegreenia]

Thanks for finding my lolleko guys.

 

[Les]

Yup, I dug it up for you! Now I'll delete the pic in my post so you can have your fame back.

 

[derekleffew]

...Example of a reasonable ebayer:
Altman 1KL6-12 Ellipsoidal Stage Light 1000 Watt 12° - eBay (item 180443998133 end time Jan-09-10 08:43:24 PST)

Reasonable purchase price, yes, but the shipping of $39.23 UPS Ground per unit warrants the purchase imprudent (And is, I think, somewhat inflated). The shipping costs make ebay an unattractive resource for most theatrical items, which tend to be bulky and heavy.

Aki, contact Opera Shop, or whatever they're calling themselves these days (Inovation Group). They might have some used lighting that would suit your purposes. See also Sources for Used Equipment.

 

[Les]

Reasonable purchase price, yes, but the shipping of $39.23 UPS Ground per unit warrants the purchase imprudent (And is, I think, somewhat inflated). The shipping costs make ebay an unattractive resource for most theatrical items, which tend to be bulky and heavy.

Aki, contact Opera Shop, or whatever they're calling themselves these days (Inovation Group). They might have some used lighting that would suit your purposes. See also Sources for Used Equipment.

You are absolutely right. I didn't notice the shipping price on first glance. I've had pretty good luck shipping things like single 360Q's, but when you're buying in 'lots' it really adds up. 1KL's are probably twice as heavy as the 360Q, so definitely take that into account.

 

[tcahall]

I picked up 4 1kL 20-40 zooms for a bargain price and am quite happy with them. They probably weigh more than twice the weight of a 360Q (definitely a better choice in the used fixture market), but do the job. I have not experienced the field or focus problems mentioned (although the expectation on a zoom is a bit different).

All things being equal, it is a big, heavy, albeit useful fixture. I jumped on these because I needed the zoom capability and had no budget. Of course, you have to evaluate the price including shipping.

Of course, the cool reflector, rotating barrel lekos are the latest, greatest and most expensive. Assuming you are not going to reach for one of those, find a 360Q that fits your needs. They are solid, serviceable units that are readily available at decent prices.

Tim.

 

[Aki]

Thank you kindly for sending the linkis. Clearly, few people here seem happy with old technology. That is understandable. Please consider that sometimes this is all some small companies can afford. We are on a shoestring here.

We need suggestions for a board, dimmer packs, stands, and lights. Do you suggest LEDs? If so, do you have any brands that are suggested? Please don't laugh, but what we have so far is:

3 sets of footlights, 15 bulbs in each section @ 75 watts each bulb.
5 Kliegl floods with 500-1000 watt halogens,
4 Altman 4.5 1530Z-MT zoom ellipsoidals 750 watts each

Low budget and mid-budget ranges would be appreciated. We have read enough on this board to see that Chauvet is not for stage, but more for dj work.

Thank You,
Aki
PS: The Opera Shop is a great place, but it is very expensive. Still, we will check with them. They used to give free classes that were great. Hopefully, the new owners will offer the same!

 

[Les]

Thank you kindly for sending the linkis. Clearly, few people here seem happy with old technology. That is understandable. Please consider that sometimes this is all some small companies can afford. We are on a shoestring here.

We're all for old technology. I whole-heartedly recommend 360Q's (6x16 or 6x22 in your case) for your application, which have been around wayyyy longer than the 1KL. Also, they are more common and about the same price. The 1KL is simply a poor design and offers no real benefits next to a similar focal length 360Q.. That's all there is to it.


Another thing about the 1KL's: Very few parts for them are still available. 360Q parts are readily available.

 

[derekleffew]

... Clearly, few people here seem happy with old technology. ...

Many/most of us have no problems with OLD technology, but the 1KL-series was BAD technology, as evidenced by the fact that the fixture was only on the market for a few years, and its predecessor, the 360Q, is still being manufactured.

 

[Grog12]

Reasonable purchase price, yes, but the shipping of $39.23 UPS Ground per unit warrants the purchase imprudent (And is, I think, somewhat inflated). The shipping costs make ebay an unattractive resource for most theatrical items, which tend to be bulky and heavy.

Aki, contact Opera Shop, or whatever they're calling themselves these days (Inovation Group). They might have some used lighting that would suit your purposes. See also Sources for Used Equipment.

Derek stop stealing my lines.

OS/IG still offers classes (at least they did as of Dec 22nd I saw a flyer while I was in there). They're probably the best bet for used gear in town.

Also try IPG as they do a fair amount of rentals.

Barbizon and Norcostco both do enough install work here in town to know who is selling their old equipment, so you might give them a call.

 

[Aki]

Many/most of us have no problems with OLD technology, but the 1KL-series was BAD technology, as evidenced by the fact that the fixture was only on the market for a few years, and its predecessor, the 360Q, is still being manufactured.

I read in older posts on this site that the 360Q casts a 'lovely' green light because of an odd issue with the lens. [Did they make the lens from impure glass?]
Is the 360Q still a good fixture?
Aki

 

[zuixro]

Sorry, I'm a little late to this thread but...

The primary use would be with gobos, gels, and stage illumination.

What else would you be using a fixture for? (Besides a doorstop of course (now ya'll have me doing it ))

 

[mstaylor]

Let me pile-on with there is nothing bad about old technology, I have a ton of lights from the seventies and eighties still in service. The Altman referenced is simply a bad instrument, the 360Q is a very good design that will last for years. Remember you will want to know your throw distance so you buy the right size for the intended use.

 

[Les]

I read in older posts on this site that the 360Q casts a 'lovely' green light because of an odd issue with the lens. [Did they make the lens from impure glass?]
Is the 360Q still a good fixture?
Aki

The older brown 360Q's had "coke bottle green" lenses in them, but it just cut down on the lumens, they didn't necessarily cast green light. They should be avoided, but if the price is right, there's nothing wrong with buying a few.

The newer black 360Q's, manufactured from about 1990-present have better quality glass lenses without this green tint. You can tell by taking the lens out of the fixture and looking at it from an angle. It should appear clear, not blue or green. The reason for the green glass was simply the time period that they were produced. Materials and manufacturing processes were different, and so was the product.

360Q's younger than about 15-20 years old should serve you well provided they were not abused by the previous owner(s). They are also much easier to work on than 1KL's.

What is your throw distance, and what size pool of light are you requiring for the given throw distance?

 

[Anvilx]

360Qs are great and last a long time. I was talking to an alumni technician from my school the other day and he was telling me that the schools stock of instruments came from another theater somewhere that had burned down. I believe it, they all look like they were refurbished and a few have rust on the inside among other things.

 

[Charc]

To clarify:

1KL6s are an abortion of a leko. I've used them extensively and can 100% tell you to never use them.

360Qs are not so hot. Many people still have significant numbers of them in active inventory, but they have their own problems. Many of these problems stem from the general age and disrepair of must everyone's inventory. Well maintained ones are a fair bit better. Still it can have issues with its barrel, it's lamp cap sucks, the shutters are prone to suckage, it light leaks like a sieve on a syncrolite, and more issues. Still though, it is a workhorse.

By the way... shoestring budget? Stay away from LEDs. You can't afford effective ones if the price difference between a 1KL6 and a 360Q is too much for you. But when you stick with conventionals... your costs for dimmers, cables, and all that stuff adds up quick. Lighting ain't cheap, and cheap lighting is... cheap.