Altman 360Q Focus

jad17555

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Nov 10, 2015
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Willow Grove, PA
I am having trouble getting a pair of 6x9 Altman 360Q's to light evenly and the same. We are adding artwork on a very plain wall for Lent and are trying to illuminate it to highlight the shapes in it and set a color appropriate for lent. My issue is that I have 7-360Q's acquired on the used market over time one of which (image 2073) has pretty even intensity across the entire field while the other (image 2072) has a hotspot in the middle. I have tried several lights in the second position and they all show the same. I have tried to bench focus one of the second lights to no avail. We are livestreaming so the variation in intensity plays havoc with the camera. The fixtures themselves are located in the end of the pew closest to the camera.

Any suggestions on how to get the lighting even across the artwork would be appreciated.
 

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Mac Hosehead

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Shark Tank
Lamp alignment on 360Q is certainly awkward compared to something like S4. Are all of the lamps the same? And what are they? Fixture in image 2073 looks in sharp focus while 2072 not so much. For pictures it's better if fixture is aimed above artwork.

My first impression is that this is an alignment issue and the center screw on lamp base will need adjustment. Of course, lens should be clean and reflectors checked for damage.
 

SteveB

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Mar 20, 2004
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Brooklyn, NY
You would have to tell us what lamp is in the fixture. When I last used this fixture we were using GLC lamp, at 575w. These fixtures, IMO allow a very good control of lamp alignment as opposed to a S4 you can manipulate the angle of the lamp in the reflector. Takes some practice with a flat screwdriver, but you can get a good flat image out of them. With an appropriate lamp.
 
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TimMc

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I'll ask the other obvious question - were these bench-focused first?
 

RonHebbard

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Waterdown, ON, CA
I am having trouble getting a pair of 6x9 Altman 360Q's to light evenly and the same. We are adding artwork on a very plain wall for Lent and are trying to illuminate it to highlight the shapes in it and set a color appropriate for lent. My issue is that I have 7-360Q's acquired on the used market over time one of which (image 2073) has pretty even intensity across the entire field while the other (image 2072) has a hotspot in the middle. I have tried several lights in the second position and they all show the same. I have tried to bench focus one of the second lights to no avail. We are livestreaming so the variation in intensity plays havoc with the camera. The fixtures themselves are located in the end of the pew closest to the camera.

Any suggestions on how to get the lighting even across the artwork would be appreciated.
@jad17555 My apologies for being late to your party:
As others have already told you this really looks like a lamp alignment issue.

To save time: With the fixture securely clamped in a position where it's aimed at a consistent surface (A plain, white, blanket for example), its lamp housing / chimney is vertical such that gravity wants to hold the cap, lamp, and socket in place rather than wanting to fall out; begin by unlocking the 1/4 turn fastener and (with the lamp lit to ~80% where it's a little more tolerant of handling and MINOR vibrations) grip the cap and slowly, GENTLY, move the cap forward and back, away from and towards its reflector.

This will tell you if there's any improvement to be made / gained by carefully / endlessly adjusting the three alignment bolts.
I'm suggesting this is a fast / quick 'n dirty way to learn if there's any point in investing more time on cap / socket / lamp alignment.
For what it's worth / Your mileage may vary.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
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derekleffew

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I suspect in the "bad" fixture, the lamp is not fully-seated in the socket. If the problem persists after a re-seat and bench focus, I've found the application of Light Hamburg Frost, R119 or R132, covers a multitude of sins, provided one can live with a slightly fuzzy edge.
 
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Les

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Feb 24, 2004
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Your fixture's lamps are definitely set at different depths in the reflector. As Derek said, it could be a lamp seating issue, or it could be the center screw out of adjustment. If you adjust the center screw, remember to compensate with the three slotted screws to add (or relieve) tension as you go. Don't wrench on them too tight or you'll bend the aluminum socket mounting plate. Be careful with the coordinates as well, because you can inadvertently lean the lamp against the reflector and crack the pinch seal.
 

jad17555

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Nov 10, 2015
Location
Willow Grove, PA
Thank you for all of the replies. The bulb that is in the one I brought home to play with is an FLK/HX600 - 575 Watt 115 volt. lamp. Playing with the bench focus I found a spot about 1/2 on the center screw away from where it was that looks better on the wall. I will see what it does when I take the unit back tomorrow. @Mac Hosehead you are correct - 2072 was defocused to try to blur out the hotspot and I would love to shoot from above, but this is a church and there is no real place to setup a high fixture in the space. I am still learning how to use these things. @TimMc if they were, it was a long time ago Hence the question.
 

ACTSTech

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Nov 13, 2019
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USA
You said they were used, is there any chance that parts are mixed and matched? I had a repair job once where someone had cobbled together parts from various ellipsoidals (same brand and style) to get a working instrument, but the reflector wasn't seated exactly and the one lens was slightly askew. It caused some odd hot spots when I got the electric working again, some realigning and a little brute force popped everything sort of into place, but the age of the instrument wasn't going to make it perfect.

A little Hamburg Frost wipes out a ton of poor focus.
 

jad17555

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Willow Grove, PA
@RonHebbard - Your little trick worked like a charm to at least give me an idea where to go. I did a visual of the alignment for centering, used your cap trick to determine which way to go, then moved each screw the same amount. I also took the lens tube apart and cleaned the lenses. Thanks
 

RonHebbard

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Waterdown, ON, CA
@RonHebbard - Your little trick worked like a charm to at least give me an idea where to go. I did a visual of the alignment for centering, used your cap trick to determine which way to go, then moved each screw the same amount. I also took the lens tube apart and cleaned the lenses. Thanks
@jad17555 My same (Quick 'n Dirty) little trick can be used similarly to determine if raising the socket will result in an improvement.
HORRIBLE overheating (and minimal useful light output) occurred when inattentive end users would install 360Q caps (Complete with much shorter [Incorrect] lamps) on 'Old Fangled' Altman 360's (NOT 360Q's) resulting in the lamp's filament being positioned entirely within the chimney rather than down where it belonged, centered in the reflector's focal point.

The same inattentive end users would often lose the fixture's spill ring resulting in two faults:
1; Sockets (and lamps) previously meticulously aligned would now be ~1/32" further / too low into the fixture.
2; Fixtures would waste light out their rear, illuminating the catwalks, coves, auditorium, calling undue / undesired attention to themselves and shining into the eyes of patrons.

The incorrect cap, socket, and lamp DRASTICALLY / SEVERELY overheated the lamp, the socket, and in extreme cases (when operators' ran the lamps at 100% for hours on end in an attempt to light their stages) turned the taller chimneys a dim cherry red.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 

ACTSTech

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Nov 13, 2019
Location
USA
This is what happens when you put EGF/EGG lamps into a Fresnel. Same lamp base, wrong bench focus.

Fixtures will need sand blasting, re-wiring, and a new lamp base; and painting to be servicable again, but will go into another theater by summer. If only the tech person installing the lamps had a clue?
Those are in better shape than a lot of mine...

Actually, is sand blasting and painting necessary if they're out of sight? Some of my instruments are nearly bare and look like they've already been sandblasted, but because no one can ever see them I've never bothered to even attempt repainting. Much like my grill on my patio...
 

ship

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Illinois
General concepts, rust needs air to continue. A rusted area has 3 dimensional layers of rust building and flaking under the layers - especially under the paint. Rust will build up under the paint if adjacent to a non painted rusting area. Though painting will retard much of it - the air to rust, sand blasting will better get into remote areas than hand sanding.

In no way is this care or restoration about it's look, it's about as if your car gets a rust spot in it's body rusting away... And many car restoring techniques other than Bondo, can be used on lights. Same concepts. In museum collection, I also have a gold PAR 46, why... because someone wanted to buy it, than not. I also have an origional Soup can PAR 38. Restoring a Fresnel is not about it's paint, or non-paint on it... but making it servicable for another 50 years.

Spray paint and other chemicals will deprive the rust from air (after high temp. spray paint is done smoking when new. - Clean lamp and lens after smoke done.) I have had good results from Rustoleum Inhibitor and Rust Reformer at high temperatures with 500w lighting fixtures. Rust Inhibitor is more like WD-40 that might also work, Inhibitor will sweat oil you need to remove over a period of time because they are also paint removers. Reformer doesn't sweat oil, but neither are persay high temperature spray paint. They have been used for short periods, but are not rated for the purpose and are not tested long term.

Hand sanding can get down to a surface that can be painted into welded ventilated areas. Sand blasting = given I have use of one, does a better job of sanding. If you have access to one, given the proper media... yep.. does a better job. Otherwise you are in the area of old cars in fighting rust. Can paint your lights green in High temp, those rust spots will destroy a light as per an old car.
 

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