Altman Phoenix RGBA Color

MK 17

New Member
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Dec 20, 2016
Location
Chicago
Hi All,

This is my first time renting Altman Phoenix LEDs for a show (my only previous experience with LED ellipsoidal is Source4 Lustr S2s)

The home white isn't even tinted purple. I would describe it as solidly in the middle between pastel purple and saturated purple. I put them in 16B mode with smoothing and master channel off.

Does this seem normal for these fixtures or does it seem like I did something wrong with their settings? Also can someone tell me what "smoothing" is, and if it will help this problem?

Finally, does anyone have experience with the RGBWs that can talk to whether they are better or worse than the RGBA? I'm pretty thoroughly unimpressed.
 

techieman33

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Nov 7, 2004
Location
topeka, ks
The smoothing should slow the dimming a little in an attempt to make the dimming look smoother and not as choppy at the bottom end. As far as the default white a lot of that is going to depend on the dmx profile that was written for that console which Altman has no real control over.
 

techieman33

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Nov 7, 2004
Location
topeka, ks
The console is an Ion running 2.5
I doubt ETC would spend a bunch of time tweaking the profile of a competing product to make it look its best like they do for their own product line. It's probably just bringing everything to 100% or some other generic formula for mixing white. You may have some luck finding a better looking white with a color picker, or maybe you'll need to manually mix it yourself. I'm sure the light is fully capable of making a nice white, you just need to figure out the recipe to get it there.
 

MikeJ

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Nov 29, 2013
Location
Here and There
I have never heard any good reviews of the Altman color mixing LEDS. The Chauvet Ovation E-910FC does an excellent job across the spectrum, for a reasonable price.
 

BobHealey

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Aug 6, 2011
Location
Troy, NY
I've got 3 of the RGBAs. Had them 3ish years now. Pretty happy with them. They were bought specifically for their saturated colors to complement the fixed rep plot at a venue the company frequently rents, since the venue does not have enough electrical capacity or dimmers to do more than a warm and cool wash from the front and a single color on the side or rear. I've only ever run them 8 bit with master/smoothing on an Express, but they've given me the colors I've wanted and needed for the shows I've used them in.
 

JChenault

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Joined
Jan 5, 2009
Location
seattle, wa USA
I have never heard any good reviews of the Altman color mixing LEDS. The Chauvet Ovation E-910FC does an excellent job across the spectrum, for a reasonable price.
Apples to oranges.

Note that the Altman unit uses much older technology than the Chauvet which is (IMHO) the reason the Chauvet does better . The addition of the lime green emitter gives much better results in large part because ( as I understand ) the lime is not a narrow emitter. IE the spectral distribution of rhe lime is wider.

In general.
RGB Is not as good as RGBA
RGBA Is not as good as RGBAL ( or RGBL)
RGBAL Is not as good as the etc 7 color units.



To the OP. RGBA vs RGBW. It depends on what you want the unit for. If you want tints of mostly white, the white emitter is a big help. If you want saturated colors, to a good amber, the RGBA Is probably the better choice. I would not use either for fave light.
 

MikeJ

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Joined
Nov 29, 2013
Location
Here and There
Apples to oranges.

Note that the Altman unit uses much older technology than the Chauvet which is (IMHO) the reason the Chauvet does better . The addition of the lime green emitter gives much better results in large part because ( as I understand ) the lime is not a narrow emitter. IE the spectral distribution of rhe lime is wider.

In general.
RGB Is not as good as RGBA
RGBA Is not as good as RGBAL ( or RGBL)
RGBAL Is not as good as the etc 7 color units.



To the OP. RGBA vs RGBW. It depends on what you want the unit for. If you want tints of mostly white, the white emitter is a big help. If you want saturated colors, to a good amber, the RGBA Is probably the better choice. I would not use either for fave light.
Fair enough, but I'm just saying there are better options available now, if you have the choice. Also, just because that ETC unit has more LEDs does not make it better. I have used the Luster 2 and Ovation side by side, and for my uses I would choose the Ovation. Others may come to a different conclusion, depending on needs.
 

RickR

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Joined
Sep 18, 2009
Location
Spokane, WA the great "Inland Northwest"
I doubt ETC would spend a bunch of time tweaking the profile of a competing product to make it look its best like they do for their own product line. It's probably just bringing everything to 100% or some other generic formula for mixing white. You may have some luck finding a better looking white with a color picker, or maybe you'll need to manually mix it yourself. I'm sure the light is fully capable of making a nice white, you just need to figure out the recipe to get it there.
I too have used the SpectrCyc and with ETC consoles without issues. ETC gets it's fixture library from a 3rd party vendor, used by many of the big names. So no built in bias expected.

Eos family console profiles come either with or without color calibration information. This one looks like it is calibrated but you can check it fairly easily. Patch it's raw address as a range of dimmers and see what you get with all at 100%. In a rental I might wonder if the green LEDs are fading/failing. It does happen...
 

soundlight

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Joined
Oct 27, 2005
Location
NJ & NYC
It's not a "problem". The Phoenixes have "raw" color mixing, which means that they don't limit the output of their colors to make white. You have to mix it yourself. Just pull down the blue then the red until it looks good. The RGBA fixtures in particular were designed to make colors, not whites. They make stunning and incredibly bright pastel and saturated colors.

If you're looking for a fixture that makes a good white check out the previously mentioned Ovation E-910FC. It's a great unit that makes up for the purple color by adding lime LEDs, as mentioned. The color is still not a great white when brought to full, as with most other LED fixtures. You have to mix it.
 

MikeJ

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Joined
Nov 29, 2013
Location
Here and There
Ahh.. I think I missed some contextual details. Yes if you use an ETC fixture with an ETC console and you press white in the color picker, yes it will make you a perfect white. Now if you take basically any any RGB/RGBA/RGBW/ fixture with basiaclly any console and a generic profile, it will simple put all values at 100%, some leave out the the amber an white, but that is usually customizible.

Red, Blue, and green make white, but every Led has a different output level, and the human eye perceived brightness differently across the color spectrum, so all at full looks like crap, because the ratio of colors is not balanced.

So there is a bit of work needed to create your own color balance, this is pretty much common place with any type of programming with random fixtures and consoles, but some people are accustom to the ease of ETC closely integrating its LED fixtures, consoles, and matching them to conventional fixtures with gel. While that is awesome, there are so many different products out there, users will need to do it for themselves a lot of the time. I'm not much of an ETC user but I assume like many consoles, these settings for a fixture can be stored into the fixture profile/personality, so after you set it up once the fixtures always integrate well into your show, with the same expected colors and results.

Also, @Les , and @RickR , I have heard very good things about the CYC light, but nothing good about the ellipsoidals or the Fresnels. Actually I have never seen or known anyone to but a new altmal fixture in the last 10 years. The last time I saw new Altmans was a theater, a decade ago trying to save money buying shakesperes instead of ETCs,....and the Shakespeares are just not as good of a fixture.

I stand by the Ovation E-910FC being the best all around LED leko, especially considering the price. Even if price was not an issue, I think I would still stand by this.

@soundlight You are right, but No LED is a good white with all LEDs at full, but hit the built in kelvin color temps on the 910FC, and its really fricking good.
 

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