Analog user seeking simple digital board

[Taffey]

About 8 months ago my best friend and I started a production company with a sum of money we acquired from a life insurance policy and good credit. Mushy stuff aside...

David has always done the heavy lifting and I have always done the technical work. Well we ended up purchasing a old Yamaha MG-32 sound board. Well it's dyeing out on us and with the success we've had over the past few months we are looking into a new board. I have only used a digital board once, it was a Yamaha OV1 (I less than enjoyed that experience). We very often have to work in venues where we have to work around the current system.

Here is the important part, I want a board that can/has:
-at least 24 inputs
-can record shows onto usb or connect with laptop
-is fairly popular so finding help from other professionals or on ControlBooth is easy
-can fit in the back of my blue Nissan Versa
-a road case would be easy to find
-easy ability to expand and upgrade over time

I am very much more used to computerized lighting boards. I want the sound equivalent of an ETC Ion.

Thanks an advance. - Taffey

 

[bishopthomas]

Yamaha LS9-32 if you have $8000 (includes the road case but probably wouldn't fit in your car). There's no way to directly record to a laptop, but you can expand it with cards and add a recording interface to your computer. The other (and probably better) option would be the Presonus StudioLive. You can record direct to laptop via Firewire. It's smaller than the LS9. Not as flexible or as many features, but it would probably serve you well.

Some questions: What kind of budget do you have? What kind of work are you doing? Are you (and your partner) the sole operator or are you looking to cross rent your console?

 

[Taffey]

We have mostly do anything we can get, we've worked anything from small bands, highschool/community shows, and we do rent out our equipment. I have a day job as a technical theatre teacher at a performing arts high school and most of the schools in my district that need to rent a sound or light board come to our company to get the best deal and best support overall for anything issues with their systems. While a hard learning curve is not that much of an issue for us an easier one would be best.

We are not really in it for the profit. I just don't work as much as I want to (I am low on the faculty ladder). We are doing this really because we love it.

Edit: Our budget is around $7,000 but we both have really good credit and willing to take out a loan if need be.

Also, how can you insure equipment like this?

 

[NickVon]

We have mostly do anything we can get, we've worked anything from small bands, highschool/community shows, and we do rent out our equipment. I have a day job as a technical theatre teacher at a performing arts high school and most of the schools in my district that need to rent a sound or light board come to our company to get the best deal and best support overall for anything issues with their systems. While a hard learning curve is not that much of an issue for us an easier one would be best.

We are not really in it for the profit. I just don't work as much as I want to (I am low on the faculty ladder). We are doing this really because we love it.

Edit: Our budget is around $7,000 but we both have really good credit and willing to take out a loan if need be.

Also, how can you insure equipment like this?

Maybe an LS9 -16 with a expansion card, and get yourself a little 16 channe; preamp rack unit.

And a friend that has similar expensive equipment has it ensured through his homeowners. And a side from that, i believe he has a a rental rider for groups that he works for that covers his equipment under the groups/venue's insurance should something happen while they are in use or out for rental.

 

[FMEng]

My $0.02 is that since you rent out your equipment, stick with analog. Analog will take more abuse over the long haul, and when something does fail, it is more likely just one function not a catastrophic failure.

 

[Taffey]

Thank you so much all of you. Also the $0.02 was really important and made me think about my options to purchase.

 

[bishopthomas]

Who you're renting to will determine if you need to stick with analog or go digital. You say you're renting to other schools and such. If you want to keep this up and not go for the cross rental business with other production companies then analog is probably the way to go. But you will not get any rentals from other sound cos. There's more money to be made in the latter, but if you already have a niche in the previous then you might want to stick with that.

If you are going to be using it primarily for yourself then digital is the only way to go, in my opinion. Maybe consider teaching your renters how to use an LS9 if they don't know already. It's a skill everyone in the industry should have by now I think. I'm sitting next to one right now, actually.

 

[museav]

I have a day job as a technical theatre teacher at a performing arts high school and most of the schools in my district that need to rent a sound or light board come to our company to get the best deal and best support overall for anything issues with their systems.

You might want to verify that this is not a potential conflict of interest. School district's hiring companies in which district employees have an interest, and especially if the school district is that company's largest or only client, is the type of thing that can result in terminations and lawsuits if not done completely by the rules. You might also want to think in terms of how whatever you purchase may impact business outside of that you get from the school district.

While a hard learning curve is not that much of an issue for us an easier one would be best.

Is this applicable to just you or also for users and renters?

We are not really in it for the profit. I just don't work as much as I want to (I am low on the faculty ladder). We are doing this really because we love it.

This somewhat goes back to the first point in that you probably don't want this to potentially be seen as the district supporting a personal hobby or your using your position to influence decisions to your benefit.

Edit: Our budget is around $7,000 but we both have really good credit and willing to take out a loan if need be.

Also, how can you insure equipment like this?

How is the production company setup in terms of a business? Doing business with the district, loans and capital purchases, insurance, etc. may all be affected by the legal form and standing of the business. For example, Nick mentioned someone putting equipment under their homeowner's policy, but that would likely only apply to a sole proprietorship which may not be the best thing as far as a partnership or in terms of the company doing business with the school district. Setting up a C-Corporation, S-Corporation or LLC might be better for doing business with public entities and for purchasing equipment specifically for the company, but then the equipment would have to be purchased and insured by the company rather than individuals. And I would not count on other's insurance covering you unless you are specifically listed as an insured and even then you might end up with some time between a claim being filed and getting restitution. I am currently going through this with personal property that was damaged while in storage and I am having to go through subrogation, meaning that even though the other party admits liability, I am having to address it through my insurance, and pay any deductible, and then wait while my insurer tries recover the costs from the other party's insurer including reimbursing my deductible.

Maybe you've already thought of an addressed all these issues but beyond the technical issues of what console to purchase, it looks like there may be some business factors to also consider.

 

[CanYouHearMeNow]

I would say the LS9-16 would be perfect, if you need 32 channels there is an expansion for it. It can easily be controlled and monitored by a connected computer. For example, if school A was renting the console this week and school B had a show next week, they could set everything, such as inputs, phantom power settings, gates, eqs, levels, compressors, etc.. in a file to upload to the console when they got it so there would be minimal downtime. It is one of the EASIEST digital consoles I have ever worked with. There is a very slight learning curve, but it would be about the same for anybody using a console they have never used that has a few new knobs.

If you aren't ready to go full digital yet, I would go with the Yamaha MG series. They have some built in effects, including a compressor (made extremely simple with only 1 knob to set instead of 3), and have models that allow for recording to a USB flash drive or regular external HD.

 

[elliot47]

We use Audio Vault and we LOVE it!!! Its sold by a company called Broadcast Electronics.

 

[bishopthomas]

You use Audio Vault for a live sound mixer? I've never heard of it so I went to the web site. It looks like radio broadcast software. Are you referring to something else?

 

[TassieBogan]

I can HIGHLY recommend the new Soundcraft SI compact mixers, Same features, more or less, as an LS9, with better build quality, easier to use, and it doesn't sound as *digital*.

 

[chausman]

I can HIGHLY recommend the new Soundcraft SI compact mixers, Same features, more or less, as an LS9, with better build quality, easier to use, and it doesn't sound as *digital*.

Wow...anyone want to lend me about 9K?

 

[TassieBogan]

Wow...anyone want to lend me about 9K?

OH lol guess i should've checked that

 

[bishopthomas]

I can HIGHLY recommend the new Soundcraft SI compact mixers, Same features, more or less, as an LS9, with better build quality, easier to use, and it doesn't sound as *digital*.

My partner demo'd one the other day and decided against purchasing it. I don't remember exactly what the reasons were. I do remember that there's no cue mix on a fader and something else about cuing mixes. I think half the graphic EQ can be on the faders at once, even though there are plenty of faders to accommodate every frequency. We're looking for something that sounds better than the LS9 but with the same functionality and at around the same price. So far it looks like we won't be getting rid of the LS9's anytime soon.

 

[TassieBogan]

We're looking for something that sounds better than the LS9 but with the same functionality and at around the same price. So far it looks like we won't be getting rid of the LS9's anytime soon.

I've had mixed experiences with them. Had a choir recently in a cathedral that had an LS-9 in house, and mic'd the chior with all Neumann KM84's. I ended up bringing in a Midas Venice 32, racks and all because the sound of the LS-9 just wasn't up to scratch.

On the other hand i'd use them for a basic monitor land setup anyday, so it's a matter of deciding what'll work best for the shows you have in mind

 

[bishopthomas]

I've had mixed experiences with them. Had a choir recently in a cathedral that had an LS-9 in house, and mic'd the chior with all Neumann KM84's. I ended up bringing in a Midas Venice 32, racks and all because the sound of the LS-9 just wasn't up to scratch.

On the other hand i'd use them for a basic monitor land setup anyday, so it's a matter of deciding what'll work best for the shows you have in mind

Exactly how I feel. For sound quality they just don't do the trick (even with KM84's in front of it). For monitors they're great (although a little clunky to navigate). How else are you going to get 16 mixes, full outboard and graphics into that small of a footprint and for that price? They definitely have their place, which is why we have the 16 and 32 channel versions, but if you're judging by sound quality alone look elsewhere. But to be perfectly honest, sound quality is usually not the deciding factor for me, it might be in the top 3...

 

[Chris15]

My partner demo'd one the other day and decided against purchasing it. I don't remember exactly what the reasons were. I do remember that there's no cue mix on a fader and something else about cuing mixes. I think half the graphic EQ can be on the faders at once, even though there are plenty of faders to accommodate every frequency. We're looking for something that sounds better than the LS9 but with the same functionality and at around the same price. So far it looks like we won't be getting rid of the LS9's anytime soon.

The SD11 might be worth having a look at when it actually makes it to market...

 

[elliot47]

You use Audio Vault for a live sound mixer? I've never heard of it so I went to the web site. It looks like radio broadcast software. Are you referring to something else?

It is for broadcasting but it also works as a mixer. Youre able to create playlists at ease and play with effects.

 

[FMEng]

AudioVault is a fine product if you are running a radio station. But, it isn't a substitute for a mixer in any way, and it is pretty much overkill for live theater use. The cost of the annual license fee will make people wince.